FW :" i dont like people pointing guns to my head"

[ralf fan]

he says this on RS's contract saga.

http://f1.racing-live.com/en/headlin...07110737.shtml

personally i think Williams has a pt. is RS wants a drive beyond 2004 he'll need to take the salary cut or else.... knowing Frank he doesnt mind dumping drivers.

[Wrex]

Actually HE does'nt say that at all. 'The Sun' (detect the note that was said with) quoted a Williams 'insider' (there's that tone again).

I had an idea Frank thought along these lines, but he has too much class to say something like that to the press.

[Adam43]

Your right, he would probably just say it to Ralf.

At the end of the day, I think it is just like market forces. Williams want Ralf, but are just sticking with their general policy of spending on the car not the drivers. Ralf (or Willie on his behalf) is trying to get more in his pocket.

[Bononi]

I say Williams won't have RS in 2005. Problably a young driver who's willing to race instead of making money.

[BootsOntheSide]

Ralf's attitude on this situation is ridiculous. He's continually underwhelmed for the last 4 years against comparatively inexperienced team-mates, has been comfortably outscored and outdriven two seasons in a row by a guy he makes millions more than, and he thinks he can siphon more money out?

Frank should defiantely take the opportunity to look elsewhere for his 2 drivers, and find someone with a bit more team spirit and commitment.

[jonathanc]

By the sounds of it (only from media info and not from horses mouth, so to speak) Ralf is being somewhat big headed. FW is well known not to give in to pressure from drivers in regards to increasing salary. If Ralf had won the WDC then things may be different, but he was out driven by his considerably cheaper team mate. Even our Nige didnt get a pay rise when asking for more cash having won the WDC.

IMHO and if was in FW position, I'd give him the boot now.....why wait until the end of 2004. There are plenty of other drivers who would pay FW for the drive and possibly do a better job..



...... sorry, thats my Ralf bash done for the day

[Spudgun]

I have to echo other comments on this thread.

I don't see what position Ralf is in to be demanding more cash. He was pretty inconsistent last year. If he had the setup right, he flew. If was just a little bit off, he fell.

I could understand if he had a blazing track record, but he hasn't. He's good but he's not a great.

If I was him I'd accept what he has. What more does he want? He's already being paid far more than JPM and he's got a real shot at the 2004 title if Williams come out of the blocks firing on all cylinders.

I think the outcome of this little episode will prove whether Ralf is more interested in money or success.

[jj2728]

frank williams has always been like that and frankly i admire him for sticking to his guns....he has always made no bones about the fact that the drivers' championship is secondary.....rs is going to back himself into a corner sooner or later (sounds like sooner to me) and we'll end up with 2 new williams drivers for 2005.....

[climb]

I think that the main point is BMW have signed a long term agreement with FW, which seems like a bit of a takeover.
This kind of a partnership will no more be affected by Ralf's presence.
I mean that BMW have gone too far to jeopardize this agreement only because of Ralf going.
This "strongly weakens" RS's positions.

[RWC]

I disagree
Having BMW as a partner clearly gives ralf an advantage(more so than he would otherwise have)

[Wrex]

Originally posted by jonathanc
If Ralf had won the WDC then things may be different,

Actually, it would'nt ask Nigel and Damon

Thats why I'm not puting alot of stock in these stories. EVERYONE knows its harder to get money out of Frank than my brother. The only reports I've read are website speculation that he asked for money (I have'nt seen a direct quote from Ralf, Weber or Frank saying this).

For all we know, Ralf may have been offered a 90% reduction.

IF he is asking for money, he's insane. He gets paid well (according to media speculation) and has'nt blown anyone away. This story is either BS or a bargining tool for Toyota.

[Bononi]

Originally posted by RWC
I disagree
Having BMW as a partner clearly gives ralf an advantage(more so than he would otherwise have)

I don't thinks this is an advantage.

[Mark Webber]

again Williams airs its dirt laundry in public fw would have to be the worst empolyer IMHO. Ralf is a fine driver and has stuck with williams through bad times & good .fw is tight with out adoubt and doesn't give a rats about his drivers Ralf would be better else where and I think you would find driver better else where .
If Ralf is asking for more that might not be the smartest thing in todays climate . But It is poor that Willaims keeps airing things like this and this is not the first time . These stupid things like this make me wish/hope Mark never goes to williams only to be underpayed and badly treated
fw doesn't care about WDC only WCC but that relfects his opinions on his drivers

[Adam43]

Originally posted by Mark Webber
again Williams airs its dirt laundry in public

I go along with Wrex's observation on this.

Originally posted by Wrex
Actually HE does'nt say that at all. 'The Sun' (detect the note that was said with) quoted a Williams 'insider' (there's that tone again).

[BootsOntheSide]

Frank is not 'tight' - he's paying Ralf a huge amount which is over the odds (and it's not just me who thnks so), and generally recognises that the drivers aren't the most important part of the package, and sometimes paying them huge sums causes them to be complacent and uncompetitive.

Answer me this - what has Ralf done to earn £12m a year, let alone a pay rise, especially when Montoya got so much less?

The last few years have only been lean by Williams standards. Ralf would've been far worse off by staying at Jordan, so don't believe that he's stuck wtiht em through lean times.

[Bononi]

Frank didn't say that, it's just someone who said it, but not him directly.

[Mark Webber]

come Boots the winfeild days where hardly great

as for fw been tight how many WDC has he let go due to pay issues fw is a beliver that its the car not the driver thus thinks Pizza is the goods in HIS cars but its not the case is it .

Ralf will drive aleast 40% better IMO in a Toyota if not for anything but better team inviroment . everyone knows most of the Drivers are on HUGE $$$$ but thats the business 12m for Ralf is just but IF he is asking for more now might not be the time . BUT a decrease is a slap in the face

[Glen]

Full new line-up for 2005? How about Webber and Button - potentially just as strong as his current line-up.

[MacMan]

I don't believe for one minute that Sir Frank would say that to the press. My attitude is, if it comes from the Sun it is no better than what comes out your bu.......

for Ralf it looks like a pay cut or bust, he really has done very little in the time that he has been with Williams. Just like DC at McLaren, it is time for Ralf to move on to a new team. Williams will always be able to get someone wanting to drive their cars and for very little money, honestly who wouldn't want to!

[Snrub]

No one really complained about JV's salary until Richard's started making a PUBLIC fuss. For the past 2 years that's the first thing anyway says about him. Is Ralf over paid? I'm not so sure about that and I don't really care. If you managed to get a raise at work should people insult you for getting it? Get your own raise and stop complaining. I think part of William's stratagy is to try to do what Richard's did in an attempt to lower a driver's salary.

Neither Williams driver was at their best for all of 2003. I think Ralf had his best performance to date.

[Damon]

Well the word is that Weber, good friend of Norbert Haug, helped initiate the Montoya move (by pointing out that the columbian was eager to move), knowing full well that his bargaining position with regard Ralf would be greatly strengthened by Montoya's departure. Mr 10% has never been one to miss a trick and it would be no suprise to hear if Weber was holding out for more money, as he knows Williams don't want to go into 2005 with two inexperianced (within the team at least) drivers. Stick to your guns Frank, this way you may be able to ditch the German and sign up a couple of trully good drivers like Webber and Fisi for half the price (neither of whom are a patch on JPM of cause, but there's not a lot you can do about that one now ).

[neilap]

I like the Webber Fisi combination. RS has nothing to bargin with. IMO if he leaves Williams, he is out of F1. Why would Toy want him? He is not that good, and in a bad car he is even worse. I would not even re-sign him. Just as I did not think "that other dude" deserved to be re-signed to BAR, I feel RS should be let go. He has had his moment in the sun.

Man, that Fisi Webber combination sounds really, really good!!

[boom boom]

I say let Ralph go.... get Fisi if you can and move up Marc Gene, he should get one seat. Or how about this? Frank gets Alex Wurz for one seat... not quite equal payback for Ron taking JMP, but it puts a dent in MaClarens testing program and Alex can give helpful input to Williams.... Though right now I don't care who drives where I just want the season to start and then we can watch the musical chairs at the end of the season

[Mark Webber]

Originally posted by Damon
Webber and Fisi for half the price (neither of whom are a patch on JPM of cause, but there's not a lot you can do about that one now ).

I'll let that slide for now Damon but I'm watching

[Jordi]

Let Jacques return to Williams if Ralf's dumped. Imagine them all, MS, KR, JPM, FA and add Jacques fighting up there, instead of down there.