Motormax cooling booster. Any racers used it?

[JasonM]

I wonder if any racers / race mechanics can shine any light on this. I'm posting here because after exhaustive internet searching I can't find any definitive answer. Hopefully someone involved with a race team will answer.

Basically I've been given a product called Motormax by my Uncle. The product is advertised as a radiator booster that's designed to reduce heat spots from an engine, and reduce warm up times.

The product is apparently totally organic, and was first used in Nascar as a replacement for water in the cooling system.

My Uncle used it on his diesel van to help warm up times, however he's unsure if it made any difference.

For application you mix it with your regular radiator fluid concentrate, and use the Motormax as part substitute for the water part.

I'm about to do a radiator flush on my Honda Integra (road car), and since I already had it wondering it I should use it.

Given actual racers post here, and the products motorsport origins hoping someone here has experience of it.

Many thanks
Jason

[tzei]

Sounds like it's about same stuff that red line water wetter. In our racing class glycol is forbidden so it is used to give some protection agains corrosion. I can't confirm much if any chance in running temps but it haven't hurted either.

[JasonM]

Tzei cheers for reply, apparently it has no anti-corrosive properties (I expect however it's better than water), the product simply aids heat transfer.

From what I understood from sales information, the product was first used in Nascar to replace a substance they could not use on track, so it ties in with what your saying about water wetter.

[Al Weyman]

Water wetter definitely works, I proved it when I had a less than effiecient rad in the Camaro, a dose of that kept it a lot cooler. I have read that dishwasher rinse agent also does the same but dont take my word for it!

[GORDON STREETER]

Water wetters do work as Al said, however it seems a waste of time to use it in a road car where the temperature is controlled by a thermostat.
As long as it mixes with (or is a replacement for) anti freeze then use it otherwise it will just stop in the shed

[RPD Motorsport]

Dosent sound like the same sort of stuff as water wetter? Sounds like this is not an adative to use with water but replaces water all together?

It is not possible to have faster warm up times, and greater cooling. Every liquid has a value called the specific heat capasity. This is the amount of energy required to raise 1 gram of the liquid by 1 degC. Waters it very high at 4.18J/g. (in comparison to most oils which are about 2). This makes it a very good coolent- it can absorb a lot of energy/heat from the engine without large tempriture rises.

The flip side of the coin is it takes a lot of energy (and time) to raise its temp in the first place. If somthing increaces warm up time, it must be lowering the heat capasity of the coolent. By definition this reduces its cooling properties.

It may be that if a given coolent system in a given climate is never required to work at it full capasity then you can reduce the specific heat capasity of the coolent. This will speed up the warm up time, and the engine will still stay cool enough as the system had plenty of reserve capasity.

Be careful if you dont know what the stuff is as it could cause problems with water pumps/alli parts etc... If your system works leave it alone unless you know more about it/test it. Just my 2p worth!

[JasonM]

Cheers again.

The Motormax does not claim to reduce overall temperature, however it claims to aid heat transfer and reducing engine hot spots, this apparently gets your cars heating working faster.

I was not aware of Water Wetter until this post, but I had a look and Water Wetter is silicon based. Motormax is apparently organic and safe to mix with any radiator fluid. On my Honda silicon based coolants are not recommended, guessing the Motormax will be compatible.

I'm going to try it, I already have the stuff and can't see it doing any harm.

Many thanks for input
Jason

[JohnD]

Plenty of detail here: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MotorMax-cooli...item3f04c1f8cd

But it looks to me like pure-grown, high-strength snake oil!
"MotorMax will absorb the heat of internal engine components and transfer it evenly throughout the engine" You mean like water?

"MotorMax will transfer the heat it has absorbed into the radiator" You mean like water? Also, "MotorMax has reduced engine temperatures an average of 15-20 degrees, with reductions of up to 30 degrees seen in select installations" Ses you - show us the evidence.

"Acting like a heat sink, MotorMax has the ability to absorb heat from internal engine parts" You mean like ......

Oh, stuff it - this is snake oil!

John

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by JasonM

Cheers again.

this apparently gets your cars heating working faster.

BO***CKS ! I hope it doesn't make your heater matrix leak ?
It does claim to reduce engine temperature that's just what you want at this time of the year, that will "improve" your heater sounds like a bargain at 25 quid !

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by JohnD

Also, "MotorMax has reduced engine temperatures an average of 15-20 degrees, with reductions of up to 30 degrees seen in select installations" Ses you - show us the evidence.

. . . and that's a good thing?


I had look at MotorMax's own website - as soon as I see "testimonials" my Snake Oil detector goes into overload!

[JasonM]

I've decided to leave it, and just purchased Honda pre-mixed anti-freeze from the dealer.

What concerned me most that despite the product having race origins, no one here has used it.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by JasonM

I've decided to leave it, and just purchased Honda pre-mixed anti-freeze from the dealer.

Probably best, As for "premix" you're probably paying 50 -75% for water ?
Don't worry Jason you will get some "stick" off of a few of us on 10/10th's, some of "us elders" should know better !

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

Probably best, As for "premix" you're probably paying 50 -75% for water ?

. . . and that's on top of the 50% extra you pay for having a car manufacturer's name on the container!

[GORDON STREETER]

Although there are different types of Antifreeze the newer all singing/dancing stuff(read expensive) with loads of corrosion inhibitors isn't necessarily good for older classics as in some cases it can attack certain types of gaskets.
I notice on the adverts for the "premix" stuff it states "Ready Mixed with de-ionized water for added convenience "
Being the cynic that I am they must collect rain water in big plastic drums in the factory car parks

[JasonM]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

. . . and that's on top of the 50% extra you pay for having a car manufacturer's name on the container!

The Honda fluid is compatible with all aluminium engine plus it needs to be non abrasive. Honda fluid is not that expensive anyway, and if I sell the car I have the evidence of what went in.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by JasonM

The Honda fluid is compatible with all aluminium engine plus it needs to be non abrasive.

Do the other antifreeze manufacturers put sand or carborundum in theirs ?

[RPD Motorsport]

Why not just buy any OEM quality OAT (organic asid tech) coolent as a consentrate. It fits the bill for all your requirements, and you will find main dealers do just that as it is cheaper than using 'pre-mix' from their supply chain. (Obiously if you dont need OAT, use glycol)

Remember colour means little. However blue is norm glycol, OAT is normally pink/red/orange, and some glycol 'compatible' OATs are green or yellow.

If you want to go to town you can mix it with distilled water (bought for batts, irons etc). That way you only need to store one small bottle and always can make up more.

[tristancliffe]

I thought these products work by reducing the surface tension of the fluid, which normally acts like a heat barrier, rather than by changing the specific heat of the fluid. Thus heat from the engine can conduct into and out of the cooling medium slightly better. This will reduce steady-state temperatures (i.e. improves the cooling of the car), and also allows the water to warm up faster before the 'stat opens...

Not used it. Not done any calcs on it. Just what I thought was the basis of them.

[RPD Motorsport]

That would work in a no flow condtion but since you have flow you get a no slip condtion at the edge of the flow where the surface tention makes no differance. If you do the sums it ends up on both sides and cancels out.
Its one of those things that intuitively makes sense, so makes for good advert talk, but in real life just does not work unfortunately! Im sure if it did every coolent would have it in as standard given it is so 'cheap'.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by RPD Motorsport

Its one of those things that intuitively makes sense, so makes for good advert talk, but in real life just does not work unfortunately! Im sure if it did every coolent would have it in as standard given it is so 'cheap'.

Reducing surface tension may help reduce cavitation, but that shouldn't be a problem in a properly-designed system.

[JasonM]

Double post sorry

[JasonM]

Could not reply before Admin set my account to approved only, and my posts went missing. Just regular replies don't see any reason for it.

Thanks for replies anyway.

[tzei]

Whats the theory behind raising coolant system pressure regarding cooling performance? i.e changins rad cap from 0.9bar to 1.3bar. Does it work?

[GORDON STREETER]

Boiling point of water is 100c at sea level atmospheric pressure. Water will boil (bubble) at a lower pressure the less it gets. So if you increase your rad cap pressure it will increase the boiling (bubble) point.
IE You can boil a kettle on the top of Mt Everest at a lower temperature !

[tzei]

But of course. What was i thinking... better to go and make more coffee...
Thank you Gordon.