Octane booster

[breezeblock]

has anyone heard of using thinners as octane booster

[Tim Falce]

Yes, I've heard of it.

[Al Weyman]

You are thinking of Tolulene, which is a paint thinner but not a car finish paint thinner like cellelouse so be ruddy careful with it as it is very carcegenic (spelling? i.e. causes cancer, nasty stuff!).

[thebear]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

You are thinking of Tolulene, which is a paint thinner but not a car finish paint thinner like cellelouse so be ruddy careful with it as it is very carcegenic (spelling? i.e. causes cancer, nasty stuff!).

Also, beware of the scrutineers should you be competing in an organized event. There are detection kits availble specifically because it works.

[breezeblock]

its only for track days anyway. is toluene quite easy to get a hold of

[Peter Mallett]

There used to be a product called "Pro Boost". As Al says its seriously nasty stuff. Anyway, why would anyone need it for a track day?

[Al Weyman]

A friend of mine used to use it in his Camaro he was worried about pre-ignition and had an knock sensor fitted and everything. I should think a chemical supplies house should sell it do an internet search. As Peter suggests I think personally he was worrying about nothing and there are some good legal brews available at the pumps these days. As has been discussed here even Tesco have recently introduced a 99 octane mix which is only a few pence a litre dearer than the standard stuff and seems to do the business.

If you don't have hardened valve seats maybe stick a bit of additive in or do what I used to do when I ran an engine without hardened seats, run the 99 unleaded 50/50 with full leaded (not availble now but maybe the LR stuff will work as well). Also if you are worried back off the ingnition advance a tad.

[graham bahr]

i cant see any need for it, high octane pump fuels will allow some seriously high cr's to be used as long as the engines built right and set up properly

[breezeblock]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

There used to be a product called "Pro Boost". As Al says its seriously nasty stuff. Anyway, why would anyone need it for a track day?

i have been using pro boost and optimax and yes it is for a track day car when i have filling up noticed the smell was quite like thinners made the car go like stink so far no bad effects

[graham bahr]

pro boost AND optimax what have you done to the engine? having a higher octane rating than needed doesn't add more power, my old 104bhp per litre beemer gave exactly the same power on either 97 or 98 octane pump fuel.

i cant see you have really gained anything, the only real way to tell is against a stop watch or on the rollers, syologically if you put a witches brew in the tank as long as it doesn't slow the car down it will feel faster

[Ali Rushforth]

You're right about it being psycological. I used to run "normal" unleaded, then I once tried Optimax with an octane booster. I then got race wins, podiums, fastest laps and a couple of lap records. To this day I still don't know whether my cocktail worked, or whether I just started driving better. Apart from the fuel I never changed the car, but my missus and kids did start coming to watch, so I may have just been driving better to show off to them!!??

[Peter Mallett]

Hope they weren't MSA sanctioned events because octane boosters are banned.

[Al Weyman]

Are they Peter because there was always some controversity about that rule. It was (in the past) as long as the petrol did not exceed a specified octane rating has that now changed, not that I use anything other than pure Tesco's 99 octane cause I am too tight for all those additives.

[Peter Mallett]

Well maybe its been removed and I don't have a blue book with me. however I recall performance anhancing products were banned. Tyre treatments and petrol treatments come under this heading.

AFAIK only the Millers product is sanctioned and that for historic motorsport only.

[Jaxs]

Tolulene and xylene are very nasty chemicals, absorbed through the skin can attack the nervous system and destroy brain cells. Constant use or working with over a long periods can and will cause serious side effects.

Any spectral analysis of the fuel will shown the use of these chemicals and result in some very serious words. The sudden improvement in performance will attract the attention of the ' authorities' with the resultant problems.

[Notso Swift]

If the MSA or the series organisers have a rule about fuel being "commercial" or "pump" fuel, (as we have in Australia) then if you add anything to it, by definition, it is no longer "commercial"...
We also have an excemption for lead replacement products, however they specifically cannot include an octaine booster.

[REALIST]

Originally Posted by Jaxs

Tolulene and xylene are very nasty chemicals, absorbed through the skin can attack the nervous system and destroy brain cells. Constant use or working with over a long periods can and will cause serious side effects.

Any spectral analysis of the fuel will shown the use of these chemicals and result in some very serious words. The sudden improvement in performance will attract the attention of the ' authorities' with the resultant problems.

I would learn to spell the names before you start to hand out H & S advice. (How many 'L's in Toluene?)

While both of these hydrocarbons carry a risk it is no more than many other commonly used solvents and far less than others. (Alcoholic beverages have the effects you describe).

Not that I'm advising anyone either way.

[Peter Mallett]

Hmm,

Toluene on the rocks please.

[R59]

Isn't the "one" to have "Miller's CVL", or CVL-Turbo. They were giving it away at signing-on at some of the "historic" race's I've seen.

Now BP offer 102 octane at the roadside pump.

Britcar doesn't (seem to) have any restrictions, so you can use 110 octane leaded if you want. They'd rather have the cars running reliably, than "knocking" themselves to bits I guess.

Rob.

[JohnD]

Don't know about toluene, but from personal experience xylene is just as nasty as it says on the tin.

I painted a rusted body tub with Hammerite, whose solvent is xylene. It was a foul evening, cold, wind and rain, so foolishly I closed the garage doors. That night I had the worst headache I have ever had - I really thought I was having a stroke or something. Since then, even a short exposure to that paint will give me a headache, not immediately but several hours later, even waking me from sleep.

Maximum industrial H&S levels are 100 parts per million. GOK how much I was breathing.

John

[Anuauto]

The MSA Blur Book seems to still be its usual mess (and doesn't seem to have changed from at least 2003 in respect of "pump fuel"). It originally had to be amended in a panic because the loss of leaded petrol from general sale was not anticipated in a timely manner (or some clown thought it wouldn't matter).
Lead replacement additives "to manufacturers' specifications" is as clear as mud. It doesn't seem to limit off-the-shelf lead replacement additives to those that don't include octane booster. It does specifically limit lead replacement additives to potassium, sodium, phosphorus and manganese. Potassium is (was?) in LRP from the pump. Redline uses sodium, Castrol Valvemaster uses phosphorus and Millers uses manganese. Coincidently (or not?) these are the only additives approved by the historic vehicle federation in its early tests of lead replacement additives.
I used to use 50/50 mix of leaded and super unleaded. My understanding is that a similar mix of (unleaded) LRP and super unleaded would not work because it needed the extra lead to react with the extra toluene in the super unleaded (ie. although "unleaded" is not "lead free", it's not enough to make a difference as in the old 50/50 mix).