[Rules] Data sharing between team mates should be banned.

[F1Guy]

Lewis Hamilton has called for data sharing between team mates to be outlawed.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report...r-data-sharing

And I agree with him 100%. It's unfair for one driver to work his butt off to get an advantage, only for the other driver to copy his hard work.

Hamilton did not look at Rosberg's data as long as they were team mates. Not once. Rosberg on the other hand, reportedly spent hours studying Hamilton's data.

[peebee2]

What a load of rubbish. He really does make himself look stupid.

[wnut]

Sounds more like a wish to make Bottas' learning curve more difficult.


Hamilton used Rosberg's settings lots and often

Lewis Hamilton followed Mercedes team-mate Nico Rosberg's direction


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/124270

[coppice]

What Formula One - and many other forms of racing - needs is far fewer rules , not more of them . Team mates have shared data(and information before it was data )since time immemorial; the suggestion is ludicrous and motivated entirely by self interest- spiced with a seasoning of paranoia. Silly man .

[F1Guy]

Originally Posted by wnut

Hamilton used Rosberg's settings lots and often

Lewis Hamilton followed Mercedes team-mate Nico Rosberg's direction


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/124270

Obviously you didn't read the article in the opening post. LH is referring to driver data. Not car performance related data.


To anyone who doesn't agree with LH's view. If you were a race car driver, and you showed up a day early, went out on track as much as physically possible, found every tenth there was available by working your arse off getting ready for the race.

Then your team mate, who happens to be your biggest rival, shows up an hour or two before race start, looks at your data that YOU worked your arse off to figure out, and beats you on race day! How would you feel?

Do you think that's fair? Your knowledge, skills and an advantage gained by your hard work and efforts, was shared with someone who wouldn't put in as much time and effort as you did, and have them beat you??

As for self interest, ummm... since when has racing not been all about self interest?? Racing drivers, on track, are some of the most selfish people you will come across. If not for self interest, why bother being a "racing driver"??

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

To anyone who doesn't agree with LH's view. If you were a race car driver, and you showed up a day early, went out on track as much as physically possible, found every tenth there was available by working your arse off getting ready for the race.

Then your team mate, who happens to be your biggest rival, shows up an hour or two before race start, looks at your data that YOU worked your arse off to figure out, and beats you on race day! How would you feel?

Do you think that's fair? Your knowledge, skills and an advantage gained by your hard work and efforts, was shared with someone who wouldn't put in as much time and effort as you did, and have them beat you??

You have, by trying to be so analytical about Hamilton, actually described him to a tee.

In case you haven't been following the media too much of the past couple of years, Hamilton has missed (my interpretation, refused to participate because he was in a huff, again) at least 3 test sessions last year and some from the year before.

Unfortunately we do not have information about how much time that he spends with the engineers both during race meetings, between rounds and in the off-season, but I would hazard a guess that the time is kept to the minimum. An example of my reasoning is that when the team were not allowed to radio instructions on changes needed to his settings and which he spent ages trying to work out, Rosberg, who had had to make the same adjustments, took just a few moments to make the corrections.

And part of the craft of the successful racing driver is the ability to set their car up in the most efficient way to give him/her the edge over the opposition, not just work out braking points, etc.. It's no good just knowing that your teammate in an identical car is able to brake 5 metres later, if when you try the same thing, you can't turn the car into the corner because it is badly set up.

What we do know is that Hamilton has, on many, many occasions copied Rosberg's settings because his weren't working. So, certainly in my eyes, his latest outpouring just re-confirms my belief that he is a chump.

As an aside, where is Hamilton going to embarrass himself this year? He's done New Zealand, so where next?

[Kempi]

This below. HAM is not necessarily known as a workhorse. So he seems to be arguing against himself.

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

You have, by trying to be so analytical about Hamilton, actually described him to a tee.

In case you haven't been following the media too much of the past couple of years, Hamilton has missed (my interpretation, refused to participate because he was in a huff, again) at least 3 test sessions last year and some from the year before.

Unfortunately we do not have information about how much time that he spends with the engineers both during race meetings, between rounds and in the off-season, but I would hazard a guess that the time is kept to the minimum. An example of my reasoning is that when the team were not allowed to radio instructions on changes needed to his settings and which he spent ages trying to work out, Rosberg, who had had to make the same adjustments, took just a few moments to make the corrections.

And part of the craft of the successful racing driver is the ability to set their car up in the most efficient way to give him/her the edge over the opposition, not just work out braking points, etc.. It's no good just knowing that your teammate in an identical car is able to brake 5 metres later, if when you try the same thing, you can't turn the car into the corner because it is badly set up.

What we do know is that Hamilton has, on many, many occasions copied Rosberg's settings because his weren't working. So, certainly in my eyes, his latest outpouring just re-confirms my belief that he is a chump.

As an aside, where is Hamilton going to embarrass himself this year? He's done New Zealand, so where next?

[JohnMiller]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

LH is referring to driver data. Not car performance related data.

LOL, perhaps you'd care to explain the difference?

[F1Guy]

Originally Posted by JohnMiller

LOL, perhaps you'd care to explain the difference?

Sure. Driver data is the drivers braking points, racing lines taken, points of acceleration, how much curb is being used at a particular corner, throttle percentage used at a particular point, etc. etc. Basically the drivers personal driving style.

Car performance data is what suspension settings are used (ride height, camber, toe for example). Also tyre pressures, aero, ballast, etc. etc. Basically the car's set up data.

Car set up info has always been shared between the drivers engineers, and it should be. That's part of helping the team improve. Driver data is a personal record of what each driver is doing, and it should not be shared IMO. Let each drivers skill and ability determine the winner. Not the better drivers info improving the lesser drivers ability.

[gert]

If Hamilton is the racer he thinks he is (and I think he is very good), then he should have no problem to outrace any other driver, even if the other one could see all his secrets.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by gert

If Hamilton is the racer he thinks he is (and I think he is very good), then he should have no problem to outrace any other driver, even if the other one could see all his secrets.

I'd agree with that gert. I do usually defend Lewis on here, but I do think that his latest outburst is a bit silly to say the least. The important part of his comment is Team mates. They are part of a team, and although they are ultimately looking out for themselves, they are also looking out to make the whole team as successful as possible as well (as that also benefits them individually). It team driver A is quicker on one half of the circuit, and driver B is quicker over the other half, by cross-referencing each others data they should be able to both become quicker over the whole lap.
The fact still remains however as Mike has pointed out, just because your team mate can brake (say) five metres later than you for a certain corner, if you want to do the same thing you still have to have the car set up, and the driving ability to get the car through that corner if you want to do the same.
Unfortunately I think the cracks in his armour are starting to show, and think that this highlights his insecurity and fears that he's not going to easily beat Bottas this year...

[BSchneiderFan]

Stupid comment from a tremendously talented driver who sometimes seems to go out of his way to make himself look foolish.

[JohnMiller]

Anyway, it's rubbish as "driver performance" data and "car" data are part of one and the same thing.

[Greem]

Lewis speaks.

Reporters report.

Fans discuss.

Liberty keeps the money wheel turning!

[JeremySmith]

Lol isn't that the truth, although I am with Lewis on this one ..

[Moneyseeker]

How much 'data' do drivers actually contribute these days? The cars are so massively engineered and managed from the garage and factory and relatively little time over the race weekend to let drivers play around with set up ideas that might not work or engineers are sceptical about.

[S griffin]

If we got rid of telemetry it would not only eliminate this problem, but make the racing more unpredictable

[chunterer]

Schumacher wasn't keen on teammates seeing hus data. I never understood why if he was soooo good?
Was it because they would have instantly known the reasons he had such a speed advantage? (I.E traction control, better engines etc etc)

[Akrapovic]

Team shouldn't work as a team. Might as well knock it down to single car entries.

[GTRMagic]

Back in the good old days, Mr Senna used to sometimes copy the setups of Mr Prost... and mostly go quicker using them....

[dsg]

Well for starters it would be very hard to enforce and secondly they are called "TEAM-MATES" for a reason.

If a driver doesn't want to share data he can put a request to the team manager to not share it, move to a team that says he doesn't have to share it or start his own team.

[Red]

What does the team inside the team shouldn't be anyone business, regulations or not. For the record I don't agree with with the radio ban or teamorders ban either. Besides, if it's "driver data" why would Hamilton need a rule to prevent Bottas from using his data? Doesn't he know how to say no anymore?

[alc59]

When a driver can be told to slow down to allow his (so-called) team mate to win, surely sharing driver data is just a peripheral detail.

[Akrapovic]

On a practical sense, how would it work, not sharing data between cars? What if Bottas discovered something potentially race ending with a part? Does Lewis not get to know? What if something Lewis does opens the door to a big engineering improvement? Do you not give that part to Bottas side?

It's unmanageable.

[F1Guy]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

On a practical sense, how would it work, not sharing data between cars? What if Bottas discovered something potentially race ending with a part? Does Lewis not get to know? What if something Lewis does opens the door to a big engineering improvement? Do you not give that part to Bottas side?

It's unmanageable.

This is not what LH is referring to. Hamilton is not saying set up data, car issues or engineering improvements cannot be shared. Some of you guys are obviously confused. Or just one eyed Hamilton haters (<probably more this). LH is simply referring to driver data.

Someone said driver data and car set up data are one and the same. LOL, no it's not. Not even the same thing. But no point arguing with the armchair experts.

Schumacher, Prost, Mansell, Piquet and even Senna have expressed their dislike on sharing all data with team mates. Not just driver data. Schumacher and Mansell in particular, actually didn't. Schumacher when he was at Ferrari. And Mansell when at Williams.

Hamilton has commented further on this, and again I agree 100%.

Lewis Hamilton: “They should be able to go out there on their own and find it all themselves, without you. You could take a young kid from Formula 3, have them just go on a simulator and drive every single day and try and get to my lines. And eventually they’d probably get to my lines.

“He should have to discover that himself. You’ve got to find the limit yourself, that’s the whole challenge of being a racing driver. When I get in this new car it’s seeing what the limit of it is. If I can’t do it on my own then I’m not good enough and I don’t deserve to be there. And there are some drivers that don’t.” (From JAonF1.com)

Agree 100%. You should not be allowed to copy someone else's homework to better yourself. This is basically what driver data sharing is.

What if say... FOM/FIA decided they were going to share the three leading drivers driver data with the entire grid? So as they could be as good as the top three drivers and "improve the show"? Good or bad idea? Might as well have driverless racing cars then. Hmmm... now there's an idea.