[Team] Team Lotus to confirm name and Renault bits but Grp Lotus start Norfolk Civil War?

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by davidjones

Hi guys, been a reader here for a while, but never got round to posting before

i was reading this thread the other day, so when i stumbled upon article whilst searching on an unrelated topic (F1 budgets) i thought it might be of interest.

it quotes Fernandes as saying "We have a licensing agreement with Lotus owner Proton and over time that relationship will grow. Lotus will probably buy into the team at some stage. More and more technology from our side will flow into Lotus cars and we will promote the Lotus brand.

full article here...

The passage of time has changed things significantly hasn't it. From an engaged couple in love to divorce in under a year. The root of this rift is the failure of the two parties to renegotiate the licence agreement. It'll be interesting to see how this unfolds through the courts.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

It seems to be too much, too fast, especially with a lot of products aimed at what I consider a top heavy segment of the market.

I think there is plenty of room in the $40K-$100K sector to do business and on top of that get people racing. And when you get them racing, you can do a nice parts biz.

Not everyone can be Aston or Lamborghini, so I can't see the point.

But the cars aren't coming all at once. One of them is projected to be 4 years away FFS.

[davidjones]

"It appears that industry politics may have lodged a spoke in Fernandes' wheel. It seems that Renault does not wish to supply F1 engines to a company in dispute with a fellow manufacturer"

if they can't come to an agreement, looks like they have two options left, re-name the team to Air Asia F1, or find another engine.

Given they have already signed a deal with Redbull to use their gear box and drive train, a Renault engine would be the only sensible choice.

looks like we may be loosing the lotus name from F1 again, I think it would be a shame if that were to happen, given they were to stay in Norfolk for historical reasons, and the backing of the Chapman family. Why does politics always get in the way!

[TWRv12]

When you have a piece of work like Mahathir Mohamad as 'special advisor' how can anyone not expect Group Lotus to be a complete shambles. Can't ever see anything good coming of it with liabilities like that.

You can see his evil grin here, on Hardtalk:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0Ao84HsGFo

If the opposition in Malaysia ever get more power, could the whole Lotus project could come crashing down?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by davidjones

"It appears that industry politics may have lodged a spoke in Fernandes' wheel. It seems that Renault does not wish to supply F1 engines to a company in dispute with a fellow manufacturer"

looks like we may be loosing the lotus name from F1 again, I think it would be a shame if that were to happen, given they were to stay in Norfolk for historical reasons, and the backing of the Chapman family. Why does politics always get in the way!

I don't think it's politics, it's to do with branding and marketing the Lotus name. As davyboy says the failure of the two parties to renegotiate the licence agreement is at the heart of it and both sides have decided to persue their own agendas. Sadly F1 may lose the Lotus name and the only one's to benefit will be the lawyers.

To TWRv12, unfortunately the BBC have blocked this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0Ao84HsGFo

[duke_toaster]

It's there, and available if you look for it.

[GTRMagic]

Mr Saward says Lotus-Renault is GO!

[ASCII Man]

Ah, finally good news!

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by Joe Saward

The latest rumours in that part of the world are that the two groups have each offered to buy the other so as to unite the two companies that have existed in parallel, to a lesser or greater extent, since the early 1950s. The Malaysian government may want to get the two groups to work together in order to promote the idea of a united Malaysia, but there is a fair amount of bad blood at the moment because of some of the recent manoeuvres, and there is also the problem that Turkish-Swiss Dany Bahar, the chief executive of Group Lotus, will not easily fit into all-Malaysian operation.

That is interesting, I feel Tony Fernandes could make a great success out of Lotus Cars, but not the other way round. Remember how AirAsia started. I wouldn't describe Team Lotus/Lotus Racing as an all-Malaysian operation, bearing in mind the squashing of the plans to move to Sepang, and the role of Mike Gascoyne. For some reason I think we're underestimating his role in Lotus Racing.

[ECW Dan Selby]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

That is interesting, I feel Tony Fernandes could make a great success out of Lotus Cars, but not the other way round. Remember how AirAsia started. I wouldn't describe Team Lotus/Lotus Racing as an all-Malaysian operation, bearing in mind the squashing of the plans to move to Sepang, and the role of Mike Gascoyne. For some reason I think we're underestimating his role in Lotus Racing.

You're right.

If you think about it, if it wern't for Mike Gascoyne, Lotus may have been battling it out with HRT rather than leading the new group...

Selby

[duke_toaster]

You're right there. Also, with RBR hydros and boxes, and Renault engines, plus Mike Gascoyne having more time to get a good car together, I think they will be battling STR for 9th in the WCC at least. Mike Gascoyne - assuming he doesn't have a disagreement with Tony Fernandes, and for some reason it looks like they get on very well - could steer Lotus in to a solid midfield position at least.

[E.B]

Re:^^^^. Living in hope.....

[diddy100]

I now see "Lotus Racing" are planning to build new wind tunnel at their Hingham base

[duke_toaster]

I guess that means they can be taken seriously. Does anyone know where HRT do their wind tunnel business?

[jab]

Well, they don't build their own cars, so nowhere

Presumably the design work was done with Dallara's windtunnel (if they have one). And there have been no updates to the car since the first race. But we still don't know who's doing their 2011 car

[Ralf's Girl]

My guess would be that they're not going to have one.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by jab

Well, they don't build their own cars, so nowhere

Presumably the design work was done with Dallara's windtunnel (if they have one). And there have been no updates to the car since the first race. But we still don't know who's doing their 2011 car

Dallara have two wind tunnels but never used them to improve that dog of a car they race in IndyCar.

HRT could get a Dallara chassis and then add an aero body kit.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by diddy100

I now see "Lotus Racing" are planning to build new wind tunnel at their Hingham base

Why waste their money to build a windtunnel? Gascoyne could have just been less of an ass and had the TF110 this year, for a fraction of the cost that was spent on it's development.

A windtunnel is a bad investment right now, especially since the FIA seem dead set on killing aero development next.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

Why waste their money to build a windtunnel? Gascoyne could have just been less of an ass and had the TF110 this year, for a fraction of the cost that was spent on it's development.

A windtunnel is a bad investment right now, especially since the FIA seem dead set on killing aero development next.

So instead of developing their own car from scratch, they could have had the TF110 and for less?

[Ralf's Girl]

Wouldn't that have been a little difficult, considering that Toyota didn't pull out of F1 until after Lotus had been granted an entry? What are you suggesting, that they should have sat back and not designed a car on the off-chance that another team dropped out and wanted to sell theirs?

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl

Wouldn't that have been a little difficult, considering that Toyota didn't pull out of F1 until after Lotus had been granted an entry? What are you suggesting, that they should have sat back and not designed a car on the off-chance that another team dropped out and wanted to sell theirs?

Perhaps another reason was that IIRC much of the design work for what became the Lotus F1 started with the local (Norfolk based) Litespeed project..... Gasgoyne was also behind that along with some other ex Lotus people. They withdrew their entry early due to (maybe not selected by the FIA?) the change of rules regarding budget caps and. I think that the Lotus name was also originally going to be associated with the Lightspeed team as well, although of that I am not 100% sure.

I know Litespeed / Gasgoyne boasted mid 2009 when their application was still happening, that they would have an actual chassis built by July 09. I believe that Mike had worked for Litespeed as a consultant under his MGI business, and no doubt much of the work he had done at Litespeed would have been transferred into the Lotus, with both cars designed by Mike to meet the same regulations.

When BMWSauber confirmed its F1 exit, after the new teams had been selected, Lotus / Malaysia F1 pushed its own entry through as the BMW replacement, with Sauber BMW eventually rejoining the fray under PS as a replacement for Toyota.

[bella]

you wouldn't know someone as competant as mike gascoyne worked for litespeed, quite frankly.

[strider]

Harsh but true.

[jab]

Gascoyne was never employed by Litespeed per se. They did a deal with him and his design company (MGI, I believe) for him to design the car. Hence why he was able to take the designs and "give" them to Lotus Racing

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl

Wouldn't that have been a little difficult, considering that Toyota didn't pull out of F1 until after Lotus had been granted an entry? What are you suggesting, that they should have sat back and not designed a car on the off-chance that another team dropped out and wanted to sell theirs?

I am of the understanding that upon withdrawl, the TF110 was offered to Lotus, first dibs. I stand to be corrected.