Grand-Am 2011 Discussion

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by joeb

Something funny came up in a recent article by Mike Shank on Speed.com. He was talking about racing at Indy next season on the Nascar weekend and said the following:



So the reason GA doesn't have attendance at their race weekends is they don't race where people are??

Have to love the effort they put in to these excuses, perhaps if people actually cared.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by joeb

So the reason GA doesn't have attendance at their race weekends is they don't race where people are??

That sounds very CARTian.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by AGD

That sounds very CARTian.

What, you dont remember the 100,000 people in makeshift high school football stands attending the San Jose Sham Prix?

[AGD]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

What, you dont remember the 100,000 people in makeshift high school football stands attending the San Jose Sham Prix?

Sorry, the awesome memories of the Hawaiian Super Prix must be clouding my memory.

Oh wait, you're talking about the railroad crossing jumping competition. Awesome stuff!

[joeb]

Grand-Am is at Road America this weekend for the first time in 10 years, but you wouldn't know if from the name of the event:

"Rolex Sports Car Series 250 Driven by Visit Florida"

It is an interesting race name.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by joeb

Grand-Am is at Road America this weekend for the first time in 10 years, but you wouldn't know if from the name of the event:

"Rolex Sports Car Series 250 Driven by Visit Florida"

It is an interesting race name.

Well, good news is this time they are running it on the nascar weekend so they should get more than 8 people this time. Nationwide weekend has become like the old CART/Champ car weekend with other 100k in attendance over the weekend. So I guess it is very good for the series to become the secondary event, much like ALMS was to Champ car.

If they had tried to do a stand alone it would have been an attendance disaster, just look at the (lack) of people in attendance for Road America recently for the ALMS.

[Purist]

I'm not sure where you're getting the ALMS having bad attendance at Road America from.

As for GA, I'm not sure how good it will be, since they're only running Thursday and Friday.

And yes, I'm not sure how excited some in Wisconsin are going to be having the race sponsored by Florida tourism.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Purist

I'm not sure where you're getting the ALMS having bad attendance at Road America from.

As for GA, I'm not sure how good it will be, since they're only running Thursday and Friday.

And yes, I'm not sure how excited some in Wisconsin are going to be having the race sponsored by Florida tourism.

Raceday for Rolex Sports Car Series 250:Saturday June 25th.

Sorry to inform you but from 2007 to 2008 weekend attendance was almost halfed, and Im not sure about 2010 but in 2009 everybody said attendance looked way down.

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by Purist

Picchiofan, there is NOWHERE on the GA calendar where those GTs are going to get more than about 160mph, IF they can even get that fast at VIR, Road America, or Daytona.

In the Long Beach incident, it was VERY fortunate that there was NOT another car or two right behind that first group, or there would have been some VERY vulnerable cars/drivers caught in the firing line.

And from what I understood of the Pruett's crash at New Jersey, the car was basically shorn in half. Fortunately, Scott ended up better off than Fabrizzio Barbazza when Jeremy Dale t-boned the Italian's Ferrari 333SP.

Also, the big greenhouses of GA machines mean that you can have MUCH larger bending moments on the frame members in an impact. Sorry, but for pure rigidity, I'll take a box girder over an unsupported span any day (unless, of course, that girder happens to make up the deck of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge).

I think he was referring to NASCAR stock cars doing 180mph+, but I don't think that changes the validity of your point.

On an unrelated note, let's hope that the (potential) Mazda pull-out doesn't mean the end of RX-8s in GT. Certainly there would remain tons of chassis and Speedsource does the engines, I realize Mazda money subsidizes the whole thing, but they aren't needed for anything technical (other than playing the political game with Grand-Am in the ever on-going rules battle) but surely there are plenty of whiners left in the Mazda teams that could be loud enough to sway the opinions of the entrant-friendly Grand-Am...

Chris

[Purist]

The date thing was my bad. I thought I read June 23-24 earlier, not June 23-25.

As for attendance at Road America, I wonder how much of that drop in 2008 was simply because people who showed up in 2007 on both Saturday (ALMS) AND Sunday (Champ Car) were actually counted twice.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

I think he was referring to NASCAR stock cars doing 180mph+, but I don't think that changes the validity of your point.

On an unrelated note, let's hope that the (potential) Mazda pull-out doesn't mean the end of RX-8s in GT. Certainly there would remain tons of chassis and Speedsource does the engines, I realize Mazda money subsidizes the whole thing, but they aren't needed for anything technical (other than playing the political game with Grand-Am in the ever on-going rules battle) but surely there are plenty of whiners left in the Mazda teams that could be loud enough to sway the opinions of the entrant-friendly Grand-Am...

Chris

A lot of people have been focused on the horrible ALMS prototype grid numbers but the truth is they arent the only sports car series with small grids in North America. Grand Am used to have 27 Daytona Prototypes, now there are 27 cars in total. A Mazda pull out would certainly not help that, even though some would likely stay, if you were to subtract the Mazdas from the current Rolex Series entry list you would have 19 cars.

[Jonerz]

Yeah, you'd have to think that teams and sponsors would still remain, particularly Team Sahlens and Speedsource, if for some reason (and I don't think this is likely) there aren't Mazdas on the grid next year (factory supported or not) I reckon there will be Sahlens Camaros or Speedsource Porsches out there.

Chris

[Purist]

Isn't Speedsource specifically a Mazda shop? If so, and Mazda pulls out, in any official capacity, I should think that that team will be gone.

And I can't even think of what Sahlens used to run before the RX-8s, at least not at the moment, so I don't know what direction they might go in.

[Accident]

Originally Posted by Purist

Isn't Speedsource specifically a Mazda shop? If so, and Mazda pulls out, in any official capacity, I should think that that team will be gone.

And I can't even think of what Sahlens used to run before the RX-8s, at least not at the moment, so I don't know what direction they might go in.

They ran one of the tube frame Corvettes at one point, but I think the car was sold a while back.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Purist

Isn't Speedsource specifically a Mazda shop? If so, and Mazda pulls out, in any official capacity, I should think that that team will be gone.

And I can't even think of what Sahlens used to run before the RX-8s, at least not at the moment, so I don't know what direction they might go in.

Yep, if Mazda pulled out, so would Speedsource, they are also involved in testing possible new LMP2 motors so that would make it even more likely. I dont think the RE car has factory support, and I dont think the Sahlens team had it until recently, so If Mazda does pull out you are most likely to see Dempsey and Speedsource leave while Sahlens and the other smaller operations stay.

The big question is that as cars such as the RX 8 come to the end of their life in Grand Am, will there be enough money to go around for the new European GT cars to fill the grid? For the Rolex 24 I certainly expect yes but for the rest of the season Im not sure.

[skycafe]

Didn't Speedsource used to do Porsche prep?

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Reading material for the Curious:

http://www.speedsourceinc.com/index....late=sshistory

[skycafe]

Great, thanks, that is what I thought.

[Jonerz]

Yeah, I believe they've prepped and run a Daytona Prototype as well. I think they are around for the long haul, but if Mazda so chooses they will stay on as a development arm... particularly if no one steps up to keep them in Grand-Am with RX-8s or what-have-you.

The GT3-type cars I worry about. Who will run Lotus, if they show? We haven't heard about Ferrari teams... Will Audi buy in? The 50th anniversary 24h would look much better with the GT3-type cars, but even Grand-Am is airing on the side of caution in their press-releases (which is refreshingly honest, *cough*Atherton'swelcomeof"thenewmanufacturer"RoushFordP2cars*cough*) saying effectively, if they show that's cool.

Chris

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

Yeah, I believe they've prepped and run a Daytona Prototype as well. I think they are around for the long haul, but if Mazda so chooses they will stay on as a development arm... particularly if no one steps up to keep them in Grand-Am with RX-8s or what-have-you.

The GT3-type cars I worry about. Who will run Lotus, if they show? We haven't heard about Ferrari teams... Will Audi buy in? The 50th anniversary 24h would look much better with the GT3-type cars, but even Grand-Am is airing on the side of caution in their press-releases (which is refreshingly honest, *cough*Atherton'swelcomeof"thenewmanufacturer"RoushFordP2cars*cough*) saying effectively, if they show that's cool.

Chris

There is a rumour, and I repeat rumour, that some people from HEICO and Black Falcon were present at the Rolex 24 this year, and that these two customer teams from Europe are possibly interested in running the Rolex 24 next year if the SLS is allowed. Also, Ferrari seems to already have 3 or 4 customers lined up for the new Grand Am car so far, but the question is whether that is for the Rolex 24 or the entire season.

I think there is plenty of interest from GT3 teams to come to Daytona, but the big question is will any of the American teams running a full schedule bother to purchase them.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

I think there is plenty of interest from GT3 teams to come to Daytona, but the big question is will any of the American teams running a full schedule bother to purchase them.

I hadn't thought of that. There are tons of GT3 cars running worldwide, and having some of them come stateside for the Daytona 24 would definitely be a way to increase the world exposure of the race.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by joeb

I hadn't thought of that. There are tons of GT3 cars running worldwide, and having some of them come stateside for the Daytona 24 would definitely be a way to increase the world exposure of the race.

Exactly, just look at all the publicity the Bathurst 12 Hour race received when the Audi Sport Team Joest guys showed up with their GT3 cars, and I think if Grand Am is able to attract European GT teams it could potentially put the race back on the international map again.

I know the 8 remaining full time Daytona Prototype teams and the 9 people plus the goat that show up to attend Homestead would ridicule me for this but I think Grand Am should dump the DPs, run FIA GT3 with their current GT rules (through BoP) and run the Continental Tire Challenge classes in the Rolex Series. Remember when almost 80 cars took the green flag for the Rolex 24 not long ago???? Well, with that class structure I think it could happen, perhaps even over 100 cars. And dont tell me a major international 24 Hour Race needs prototypes to be successful, utter rubbish. Just look at the Nurburgring 24 Hours.

P.S. dont know what the drink icon is for, accidentally pressed it and wish I could remove it.

[Purist]

Sorry, FCP, but the only GT-only series that get me going are GT1 and SuperGT. Not even the GT3s pop enough to really do it for me. And GT2s are alright, but they still don't draw me in enough that a series of them, even combined with some other, lower GT classes, would be something I would watch all that keenly. So the prospect of a GT-only Grand-Am, or ALMS, or whatever, just does NOT appeal to me.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Purist

Sorry, FCP, but the ONE GT-only series that gets me going is GT1. Not even the GT3s pop enough to really do it for me. So the prospect of a GT-only Grand-Am, or ALMS, or whatever, just does NOT appeal to me.

So 11 prototypes with perhaps 3 teams that can win with Grand Am and 3 prototypes in total with the ALMS is more appealing to you than a strong, healthy GT grid battling for the overall victory? Under my proposed class structure 68 cars would be racing at the main Grand Am event at Road America this weekend, and over 100 would have raced in the Rolex 24 this year. I love prototypes, thats why my current favourite championship is the ILMC, but sometimes its not what is best for you and me and best for the series. Imagine how great it would be if the ALMS actually had pro racing at the front of the field again and not a glorified club race?

Dyson vs Muscle Milk for the overall win???? Seriously, what about BMW vs Corvette vs Porsche vs Ferrari? Notice on facebook and other websites after ALMS and Grand Am races? The comments are usually always regarding BMW, Corvette, Porsche, Mazda, Camaro, Ferrari ect and not Dyson, Muscle Milk, Ganassi and the NASCAR Bankers. People can go to their local Porsche, BMW, or Mazda dealer but I dont think they can go to a Riley or Lola dealer.

[Fogelhund]

A Pro GT series isn't going to appeal to some people, that is a reality.

An amateur/Pro-Am Prototype series isn't going to appeal to a lot of people either.

It really depends on what the series pretends to strive for.