The cars of the European Touring Car Championship

[andy97]

Just found this interesting site whilst browsing:

http://touringcarracing.net/Pages/cars.html

basic info and photos of the cars that raced in the European Touring Car Championships through the years

[chunterer]

One for Motorsport History I think Mods?

[andy97]

Oops, sorry

[Mike Bell]

It is a great site, and often used for reference. Frank de Jong posts quite often on the Motorsport History sub forum.

[zefarelly]

Frank has been very helpful in the past and its a great reference point . . . . some race organisers would do well to read a few facts once in a while.

oops, did I just say that out loud ?

[andy97]

By the way, have a look at the entry for the Dolomite in 1978 - 230 Bhp (although the entry is followed by an exclamation mark, implying some doubt) from 2 litres whilst the 3 litre Capri is only credited with delivering 220 BHp.

[Al Weyman]

Interesting the small block chevy powered Group 1b Camaros only rated at around 350 to 375bhp which seems about right. If that's what this new Group 1 series was running to I would contemplate converting my car and building a legal engine to that spec but somehow I have my doubts!

[AntA35]

Originally Posted by andy97

By the way, have a look at the entry for the Dolomite in 1978 - 230 Bhp (although the entry is followed by an exclamation mark, implying some doubt) from 2 litres whilst the 3 litre Capri is only credited with delivering 220 BHp.

If you look at the 1977 entry for the Dolly its also at 230bhp without exclamation marks and the Capri for 1977 is also rated at 225bhp. However, is it all that surprising given the Dolly was the only 16v engine in class in its day.

Rik Woods original CC car is now suggesting 269bhp (up 39 bhp from period, his words) which would suggest the figures are accurate. My Dolly, which is the car pictured on the site for 1977, is now in excess of the 230bhp as quoted and there has been very little proper development of the engine since then. So I'd say its about right.

[andy97]

Ant, many thanks for that, that's interesting. Surprised that Dollys are not more popular in historic racing/ rallying then. Perhaps spares supply is an issue compared to the Fords?

[AntA35]

Originally Posted by andy97

Ant, many thanks for that, that's interesting. Surprised that Dollys are not more popular in historic racing/ rallying then. Perhaps spares supply is an issue compared to the Fords?

I'd say the Dolly was a reasonably popular car in its day and up until the 1990's. Sadly the racing of the cars from the era hasn't been that popular until more recently so I think we should start to see some more come to the surface.

The Dolomite was all done and dusted in terms of development by 1978 and there were still 4 more years of the Group 1 era to go. The Capri saw development all the way through to end of the period and therefore was a much quicker car by the end of its racing career in 1982. Equally the Rover SD1 was also receiving development through the end of Group 1 and then into Group A to 1987.

The Dolomite 16v engine wasn't really used in any other car (except for a stint in the TR7 and the March 763 Formula 3 car) and so it hasn't seen much development since the mid 1970's although it has been made infinitely more reliable. There is still a huge amount of potential that is untapped, but it will take quite some expense to see it produce say 265 - 270 bhp reliably.

The Dolomite Sprint is one of those "could have been so much better than they were cars". They had the right engine, but the poor rear axle set up and pathetic brakes were its downfall. Had it received decent brakes and independent rear suspension it would have probably cleaned up for many more years. Some development was done to get it to a point, but the focus moved away from the Dolomite to the Rover and Jaguar. However it did do rather well in 1975 winning the BTCC and coming a very close 2nd in 1977 and 3rd in 1978. The Capri then became the car to have and development on the Dolly stopped which is why there are loads more Capri's than Dolomites around today!

[andy97]

Ant, many thanks, that is a great summary for those of use that don't know the detail.

I think this quote sums up a great deal of British industry, not just BL.

Originally Posted by AntA35

The Dolomite Sprint is one of those "could have been so much better than they were cars".

[Frank de Jong]

I might emphasize that the figures I quote on the site are from contemporary sources, combined with a little logic from my side; there was (and is) very little proof on its accuracy, especially HP figures.
If you want more, my old archive (I quit about 10 years ago with this when I found another hobby) can be found at http://www.dlg.speedfreaks.org/archive/cars/cars.php
It is just a plain, quick & dirty conversion from my database but it might give some more information, not only on touring cars. Data has been collected from books, magazines and the first 5 years of internet as we know it.

[Andy Clegg]

Thanks for that Frank, all your sites are interesting.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by AntA35

I'd say the Dolly was a reasonably popular car in its day and up until the 1990's. Sadly the racing of the cars from the era hasn't been that popular until more recently so I think we should start to see some more come to the surface.

Some development was done to get it to a point, but the focus moved away from the Dolomite to the Rover and Jaguar. However it did do rather well in 1975 winning the BTCC and coming a very close 2nd in 1977 and 3rd in 1978. The Capri then became the car to have and development on the Dolly stopped which is why there are loads more Capri's than Dolomites around today!

Yes I think the Capri was getting troubled a bit too much by the Dolly for some people, and then Ford got some 'funny' bits homologated and all of a sudden the Capri was restored to its race winning supremacy...

[AntA35]

Funny bits? Funny bits? Surely not in motor racing…

[Peter Mallett]

The problem for the Capri was popularity. Always too many of them to allow a clear regular winner.