Should Marshals Be Paid??

[AndyF]

With the introduction of what appears to be an excellent forum, I suppose I should ask the age old question - should Marshals be paid?

I should imagine that most of our Marshals are quite happy to work for nothing, but do you think that you should be paid for your services. I know that most drivers think what a great job you do - but would they be prepared to pay an extra £5.00 entry fee to be donated to the Marshals!!

Your views....

[Marshal]

Expenses would be nice, but that's not really the problem. As soon as you are paid, you have health and safety issues, re-alignment of tax codes etc. etc. and it becomes a bit of a mess. Personally I'm happy enough not being paid, but trying to do a professional job. Any other thoughts?

[Stephen Green]

I agree with you Marshal. Another problem with being paid is that you tend to attract the wrong sort of person. As things are we do what we do because we have a love of motor racing, some would say we are completely mad! If we were to start paying marshals then I think that aspect of marshalling would rapidly disappear.

[Dan Friel]

Getting paid would not be good.. as Marshal ponts out there's plenty of problems, and as Stephen points out that's not the reason that anyone should do it!

How much would we be worth if we were paid??

Expenses (you do sometimes get a fiver) would be nice, even if it's to fund breakfast.

[Chris Y]

Since the BARC (at least) are introducing mandatory transponders this year, there won't be a need for all of the timekeepers. I think the money that would be spent on the timekeepers should go towards marshalls' expenses, free food, etc.

[Stephen Green]

Mmmm, a man after my own heart Chris. Sadly I don't see it happening do you!

[Stephen Green]

Although only 7 people have voted in the poll so far, there seems to be a resounding NO to marshals being paid to attend race meetings. Something with which I happen to agree for the reasons stated earlier in the thread. May I just say 'thank you' to those who have taken the time and trouble to vote so far!

[Dave Brand]

I suspect that if marshals were paid, overall we'd lose more then we'd gain.

It is, however, nice to feel that the clubs appreciate us - most, I feel, do something - raffles, packed lunches, t-shirts, free invites to the annual bash, etc.

[AndyF]

Thanks for your views guys. I guess payment isn't the answer, although I am sure an extra contribution to costs say a fiver a meeting, wouldn't go unnoticed. Plus as much free food as you can eat.....well, maybe not!

[Stephen Green]

Has someone been sending you secret pictures of my waistline Andy?

[scottball75]

Ahh, the old payment debate.....

I dont think that we should be paid, for what we do. Getting expences, meals & overals paid for etc is probably the way forward I think.

[Stephen Green]

I totally agree with you Scott. To have overals sponsored would be a good idea and to have a breakfast voucher wouldn't go amiss either. Still, we can dream I guess?

[DarrellB]

The advantage of not being paid is that you can do as many or as few meetings as you wish and are not tied to having to attend because you are paid.

As has already been said a bit more appreciation and thought for the marshals from some of the organising clubs would not go amiss and this could be demonstrated in many ways eg meal allowances, clothing allowances (how much are the overalls, boots etc. which all come out of the marshal's own pocket)travel allowances etc and maybe even a well done now and then!
Decent sensible start and end times would also be more worthwhile than pay considering many marshals travel long distances. Whereas the drivers can arrive and leave as they please the marshals have to be there from start to finish.

[Richard Sneader]

With reference to your comments reference Timekeepers, it seems you do not really know the what you are talking about with reference to Timekeeping.
Firstly all Timekeepers are staff of a company called MST Timing (or other similar companies), and what actually happens is a club, for example BARC, BRSCC hires out all equipment needed for a meeting (including TP, Transponders, Beams, Laptops and MINIMAL staff to run the equipment, which on average is 6 people, whom are also judges of fact - so yes we are paid but by MST Timing we get a set rate for the day plus travel expenses, however we are also not getting many new comers). As this includes supplying transponders, the driver/club does not have to pay the full cost of a trandsponder. So when you say BARC are running on transponders they are getting these from MST Timing and paying them for the use of them and they also need our equipment for downloading the data and running the system.
Perhaps you should look in race control instead!!! They get plenty out of motorsport!!
This is coming from a Timekeeper and I am also an Incident Marshal (member of the BMMC). I do agree that Marshals should actually get something for there time eg breakfast or a fiver/tenner to go towards travel expenses.
Lisa (my wife)

[Red Dog]

Why does someone want to be a marshall? Up at 5am or so to stand around in the freezing cold trying to prevent adrenaline junkies from piling into each other, putting up with verbal diahorrhea from those that they have rescued from the fray. Trying to stay alert through even the really boring races and not able to leave for home until all the races are over.

As I have never marshalled I have no idea what I am talking about but as a driver I have been rescued by some truly wonderful people in orange overalls. Although the ones at Oulton Park were peeved at having to run so far to get me.

I never fail to add a fiver to my race entry fee for the marshalls fund but does the money go where it belong, I ask? The Competition Secretary does look awfully well dressed and his car is always the latest model.......just kidding!

I can't see how paid marshalls could possibly be any better than the ones we have now, but some hot breakfast on a dark, cold, rainy October morning at Snetterton would seem to be an incentive worth having. Especially at the prices they charge.

[Muppetrescue]

Think of it like this , if we pay marshals ;

1)How much ?? If its say £5.00 per hour then from 8:00am to 6.00pm if you're lucky thats £50.00 per head per day. Even with 30 marshals on circuit thats en extra £1,500. Then are we paying for skills , if so there will have to be a scale with novices on the bottom and Io's/ observers and rescue crews on the top.

Then how do we tell the tax man???

2) If we are paid then we are "employees" so all manner of health and safety legislation applies. So no longer can you miss a training session.

Good news would be that no longer would you have to shell out for overalls etc , these would all have to be supplied by you employer the organising club.

Bad news is that there would have to be a disciplinary code of connduct etc. If you sleep it in you may have disciplinary action.

3) This is where it gets interesting for the CoC. I can only speak from the Irish perspective but you will know have to consider the European working time directive which allows people to only work a certain number of hours per week. Leaving people out in the rain/ cold for 10hrs at weekends on their second job may end up being against the law.Furthermore your primary employer has responsabilities to ensure that he complies with legislation. If you come in tired from your second job he may relieve you of your first!!

Solution: Continue with a voluntary system but consider why people volunteer and what makes them leave. It is interesting to see that anti-social nature of race days is a problem world wide. Ie leaving at 07:00am and not getting home till 8:00pm, if you have small children you will not be popular. Organising clubs take not.

MuppetRescue

" Why don't you get things started !!"

[Teletubby]

Darrell,

Every meeting I've been to with you has involved you having a sensible start time even if everyone else is there on time!

;0)

Seriously though I think that as Rescue crew we are not really short of appreciation, typically what we do is high profile but on post all day dealing with all manner of incidents does not attract the same level of attention and seems therefore not to be as greatly appreciated.

I'm not sure that it isn't appreciated but the "Thanks for all your help" from Race Control at the end of the day always seeems a bit bland and scripted. Not really sure how to fix that within the time constraints but certainly something needs to be done.

Martin

[Stephen Green]

In answer to the point made by Red Dog regarding why do we ever bother to marshal. It's simply that we all love motor racing! Actually there is a small bonus if you think about it, no one stands in front of you during the race so the view is unobstructed hahaha.

The point about the fiver is also valid. I can only speak for the guys at Brands Hatch, but we do get a decent raffle at the end of each day. Maybe we should dispence with the raffle and give everyone a £5 meal voucher?

[Teletubby]

I don't remember who but somebody once said that Marshals are all frustrated racing drivers!

Having seen what I've seen I'm not sure I fancy racing at all!!

On another note, why is it that the higher profile the series they race in the more ignorant of Marshals most drivers seem to be?

[rick vaux]

Well i for one would appreciate being paid,or to put it another way, have a contribution put my way .Living in Hertfordshire, for me to travel to Oulton Park, costs me £ 35 plus food for the weekend.I am also self employed so add on lost earnings for the saturday, you are talking about a figure of £ 200 .I would obviously not expect the full cost of traveling to be met, but at least a few quid to go back in the tank would be nice.Bearing in mind the amount of races i cover as a marshal, usually participating on both sat and sun plus the odd bank holiday, it costs me a small fortune.The reason i do what i do is for the pleasure it gives me. What i have noticed over the past, is marshalls attitudes to the poor facilities we have to endure week in week out.We all talk about it , but we do nothing about it.What a mad mad bunch of skilled and somewhat over looked people we all are !

[DarrellB]

Originally posted by Teletubby

Seriously though I think that as Rescue crew we are not really short of appreciation, typically what we do is high profile but on post all day dealing with all manner of incidents does not attract the same level of attention and seems therefore not to be as greatly appreciated.

I'm not sure that it isn't appreciated but the "Thanks for all your help" from Race Control at the end of the day always seeems a bit bland and scripted. Not really sure how to fix that within the time constraints but certainly something needs to be done.

Martin

I quite agree that being on rescue we do tend to receive more appreciation than marshals on the bank receive which I think comes from having more direct contact with the powers that be on a raceday.

The structure is there at most circuits with the normal lines of communication. Perhaps a debrief session after dealing with an incident would allow the clerks to show some of their appreciation of a job well done and would also assist with training, increasing confidence of the team and would maybe help with their motivation.

[Chris Y]

Originally posted by Teletubby
On another note, why is it that the higher profile the series they race in the more ignorant of Marshals most drivers seem to be?

Not to mention more ignorant of officals, and more ignorant of spectators and fans.. Thankfully, there are one or two at the higher levels of the sport that are the exception to this rule. They know who they are

Incidentally, do marshals enjoy drivers waving to them, like on the warm up and slow down laps?

[Stephen Green]

Hi Chris,

The answer to your question of waving is Yes. There is nothing I detest more than standing there waving and clapping the drivers after a good race and they wander by completely ignoring us. It actually starts in the lower formula with the younger drivers, so maybe someone in race control might nudge the little buggers about manners?

As for the comments made in a previous post about the conditions we all suffer. This subject has been discussed at length in my Yahoo Club and there really sin't an easy answer. The BMMC who are supposed to represent us have precious little influence with circuit owners despite there being a working party within Octagon for example, to which the BMMC have been asked to make representations. It was suggested that I write to the likes of Jackie Stewart and the MSA to argue our point, but I feel to get involved with 'splinter groups' is often counter productive.

However, at the end of the day, conditions are appaling for many of us, especially in the winter months. Try running to the scene of an accident carrying an extinguisher and dodging rabbit warrens or pot holes at the same time as keeping your eye on all that is happening around you. In the winter we are left to provide plastic sacks to keep our bags and equipment dry, why couldn't there be huts big enough to put our bags in and also to stand in between races to keep dry? I/we could go on adinfinitum but then my heart rate would go up and the heart attack would be that much closer.

It might even be a good idea for some of the drivers to mention issues like this from time to time at club meetings? IT surely can't do any harm!

Stephen.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally posted by scottball75
Ahh, the old payment debate.....

I dont think that we should be paid, for what we do. Getting expences, meals & overals paid for etc is probably the way forward I think.

Actually, that's the sort of thing I had in mind with my "clubs" thread.

[Stephen Green]

Peter, from the conversations I have had with other marshals, I think you are right and that it is the small considerations we would like to see. Maybe a meal voucher, storage places for our bags in the dry, being able to park our cars close to the track, transport to the post on long circuit meetings, and lastly a little respect from some of the organisers. Toca are particularly snobby and snooty when it comes to being aware of marshals.

We all forget one very important factor. No motor race could take place without the marshals who give their time so freely. It really is about time a few organisations took note of that fact!

Stephen.