Sportscar/GT (and Le Mans) Rumours and Repetition

[Accident]

Originally Posted by Snips1

Try to put a factory DP (if such really exist) and a factory LMP1-H on the same track, at the same time. And let them do a 6-hour race. Now which one of them is going to look like a Formula Ford from 1995?
Get it?

Missed sarcasm aside, I don't really see much of a point in an on-track comparison of two different cars built to different rule sets with very different intentions and a massive price gap. Not saying you shouldn't like P1 better but if that's your reason then I think you are missing the point... A DTM car is way faster than a V8 Supercar but that doesn't mean the DTM is a better championship.

Even if you like pro/am LMP2 stuff better than full pro DPs, LMP3 is no better than LMPC, TUSC GTE is far better than ELMS GTE, and TUSC GTD has a way better entry list than ELMS GTC, plus TUSC has a bigger calendar, and better tracks.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying ELMS is terrible or anything but I don't see how TUSC is "lucky" to be compared to it.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by J Jay

Well let's be honest - even with my brilliant image editing skills, the actual shape of the ACO ladder wouldn't look very appealing to prospective regional series entrants...

[Deleted]

That's the most amazing thing here ever JJ

[TF110]

Speedweek has a piece on the wec's possible expansion. 10 race maximum is mentioned with 7 minimum. Ideally for me itd be 12 rounds with added races in Brazil, Road Am, Monza or Imola and Canada/Mexico.

[deggis]

Translation

Interestingly Neveu specifies Monza.

[Lanky Turtle]

Originally Posted by TF110

Speedweek has a piece on the wec's possible expansion. 10 race maximum is mentioned with 7 minimum. Ideally for me itd be 12 rounds with added races in Brazil, Road Am, Monza or Imola and Canada/Mexico.

Budgets would go way up with 12 rounds, and quite a bit with 10. You forget teams and pay drivers like to race as little as possible in a season

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Lanky Turtle

Budgets would go way up with 12 rounds, and quite a bit with 10. You forget teams and pay drivers like to race as little as possible in a season

If the races were varying length and actual prize money was gifted, it would help. And I doubt any of these guys have much issue with doing additional races. You see lots of teams doing more than just one series. I think the main issue would be scheduling if costs are a concern. But keeping races on the same continent close together or in succession solves a lot of that.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by deggis

Translation

Interestingly Neveu specifies Monza.

Oh yes!!! Please return to Monza

[pablocomics]

Originally Posted by Snips1

USCC is nothing but a private party, except fot their GTLM class. The champinship is lucky to be regarded in the same category as the ELMS. USCC doesn't even come close to WEC.

Obviously if you remove GTLM and P TUSCC is a Proam championship. In the WEC if you remove LMP1H and the small GT-Pro you get a PROAM too, this is a sportcar competition, it walways was like that. Audi, Porsche or Toyota are on a different level, but try to compare Ganassi and Rebellion, as I said, not that far away (...or Nissan and Panoz )

ELMS and USCC are not even close to have the same level. Could you compare the people attendance on the standings between ELMS and USCC? could you compare the TV numbers? could you compare the team budget? could you compare the sponsors of the teams?

Yes, as Chiana said the rebranding in P class is a big joke, but they still remain some factory support, even on GTD class there are a small factory support. In ELMS, you pay, you drive. Ok you can find a few pro drivers in order to help to win the glenteman and make them feel like real and professional drivers, but as I said this is also part of the spirit of sportcar competition.

We could make a lot of irony about that, obviously USCC is struggling with numbers and they have a serious crisis (Mostly because IMSA big mistakes), but remember that he ELMS was close to dissapear a few years ago and still didn't recover from that totally.

...and it was my opinion and opinions are like asses, everyone has their own

[lms]

Originally Posted by deggis

Translation

Interestingly Neveu specifies Monza.

why monza? why not road atlanta or sebring instead?

[MagVanisher]

A race in Monza would be cheaper than going to either Road America or Sebring.

Honestly, the WEC should make variations in regards to race durations. I wanna see a revival to the Mille Miglia race in Monza!

[Pandemonium]

Monza sounds awesome!!! Now only montreal missing to make the calendar perfect.

[Acid09]

If I recall correctly the biggest issue with Monza was always their limited amount of noise days, hopefully they have found a solution for that.

The track really makes all the sense in the world, it has the history and it would be another place for the manufacturers to run their Le Mans style aero.

Montreal would be another fantastic addition. Great city and the track is just a bit different, almost feels like a city track with the walls so close to the track, could make a thrilling venue for multi-class racing.

Not fond of Indianapolis. Yes, it obviously has an iconic name but the road course is rather boring aside from the banked final corner which would be interesting to see LMP1s on.

Generally, they can't go too wrong with any of the names mentioned, thankfully there's no nonsense like Russia or India in there.

[MoMedic9019]

Monza is a race that's needed to happen for a long time. Or Imola.

I'm impartial.

[Lanky Turtle]

Originally Posted by TF110

If the races were varying length and actual prize money was gifted, it would help. And I doubt any of these guys have much issue with doing additional races. You see lots of teams doing more than just one series. I think the main issue would be scheduling if costs are a concern. But keeping races on the same continent close together or in succession solves a lot of that.

I sure wouldn't mind WEC at Road America. I'd be there in a heartbeat.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

Monza is a race that's needed to happen for a long time. Or Imola.

It makes too much sense for either race not to happen, right? That's obviously why we haven't had a race at either Monza or Imola for 4 years and counting now...

About the flat "6 Hours" format though, I always assumed this was a way to make the races/series more likely to be picked up for live TV? You could argue that the WEC doesn't generate the figures for this to matter and I wouldn't necessarily disagree, but having a fixed duration (as opposed to a fixed distance) means the scheduling block is also fixed. For instance, both Spa & Silverstone saw the #7 cover more than 1200km; if those races were 1000km instead they would only have run for about five hours. That's a lot of wasted airtime for a broadcaster who probably knows their audience isn't massive in the first place.

Explaining the lack of 3/4/8/12 hour races (especially 4) is a bit more perplexing, outside the catch-all that the ACO want to keep WEC race distances distinct from USCC/ELMS/AsLMS races. With enough variance in length the impact on the teams could be evened out so that they're not spending any more than they are now, or would be when the WEC inevitably expands to 10 races.

[Deleted]

TV is and has always been an excuse. It could still just be 1000KM (back to strategy!!) and ACO could order full 6 hour TV window for it regardless. Even if the actual race ends up after 5 hours 10 minutes once the 1000KM is reached, you can easily fill out 20-30 minutes of post-race with the endless sub class trophy giving podium ceremonies, and if there's leftover time that can be left for interviews and some random analyzing, or race highlights replay in compact form. If you actually look at one hour WTCC broadcasts on Eurosport, maybe 20 minutes of it is actual racing, rest is just filler.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by Chiana

If you actually look at one hour WTCC broadcasts

W-why would you make me do this? What did I ever do to you to deserve such a painful torment?

To be honest I'm struggling to reason with the ACO's decision myself, but surely there must be a better reason for endless 6 Hours than "just because". I can imagine there being some sort of willy-waving aspect to this as well ("More than two [non-NAEC] USCC races! One and a half ELMS races!") which, while fitting with my impression of the ACO, is hardly a satisfying reason itself.

The danger is that sooner or later everybody within the series just gets used to it, and with no clamour for change from the inside I very much doubt any amount of shouting from the outside will be heard.

[TheMightyM]

Originally Posted by Chiana

TV is and has always been an excuse. It could still just be 1000KM (back to strategy!!) and ACO could order full 6 hour TV window for it regardless. Even if the actual race ends up after 5 hours 10 minutes once the 1000KM is reached, you can easily fill out 20-30 minutes of post-race with the endless sub class trophy giving podium ceremonies, and if there's leftover time that can be left for interviews and some random analyzing, or race highlights replay in compact form. If you actually look at one hour WTCC broadcasts on Eurosport, maybe 20 minutes of it is actual racing, rest is just filler.

That's not the only issue — there are also races that run long, where you have a lot of yellow or red flags and it takes more than the allotted TV time window to complete the race distance. That really is a bigger problem for television broadcasts.

[TheMightyM]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

Monza is a race that's needed to happen for a long time. Or Imola.

I'm impartial.

Imola already happens… in ELMS.

[Deleted]

I think it's just there because it's easier for the organize. You can just schedule the strict timing of post race happenings, you know tell the grid girls to... oh wait... well okay at least with it being 6 hours instead of 1000KM you end up saving tire change and extra fuel consumption... oh wait... but if nothing else, at least with the clear timing Eurosport is now committing to more than one or half an hour at the end in addition to start... oh wait

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by TheMightyM

That's not the only issue — there are also races that run long, where you have a lot of yellow or red flags and it takes more than the allotted TV time window to complete the race distance. That really is a bigger problem for television broadcasts.

Well, you could avoid that with a variation of the old PLM format: "1000km or 6 hours, whichever comes first."

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by TheMightyM

That's not the only issue — there are also races that run long, where you have a lot of yellow or red flags and it takes more than the allotted TV time window to complete the race distance. That really is a bigger problem for television broadcasts.

The old races weren't "Strictly 1000KM", they were "1000KM or 6 Hours". So the TV broadcaster always had to be wary of that. Even as late as in 2010 you had race reaching that limit with the LMP2 fest at LMS Hungaroring 1000KM

[Lanky Turtle]

Originally Posted by lms

why monza? why not road atlanta or sebring instead?

When ILMC ran Road Atlanta I think the general consensus was the paddock was too small and not up to par for them. And regarding Sebring, unless they're part of the 12 Hour weekend, I don't think a standalone event would draw a very good crowd.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by J Jay

W-why would you make me do this? What did I ever do to you to deserve such a painful torment?

Because WTCC is awesome? Particularly since the ran the FULL NURBURGRING NORDSCHLEIFE this year? (seriously; three-lap races!)