What does F1 use to track the position of the cars?

[More_than_GPS?]

While I know this question might sound silly...it'd be neat to gain your feedback.

I know they have sensors on the track that pick up position data off of the cars as they go by - but how good is this data? is the data 2D or 3D...? Like, do they get any information on the altitude, latitude, longtitude info on the cars...?

I'm doing a report and would love to gain your no doubt well informed insights!

Thanks,

holly.

[twig]

Are you talking about where you see on the team's pitwalls, the track map and the little dots for the cars going around? Or just as they go over the sector markers?

The sector markers are some sort of beam, im not exactly sure what type, someone will clear that up. The little track map with the dots i would assume is gathered from the sector timings - the know that it takes say, 30 seconds for a car to get through that sector, so as it starts the sector, the computer assumes where the car is, and the position gets specifically updated every time it crosses one of the timing beams.

Picking up altitude is really pointless in this exercise isnt it?

[TheNewBob]

Sector markers - I'm guessing an infra-red beam, although not sure how that would tie in with the car's transponder. I don't see the point of "3D" data - They may need to know how far around the track the car is, but unless they accidentally put the wings on upside down then I guess they won't really need to know how far up the car is as well!

[muzza4ever]

try this link from the Tag Heuer site nice piece of historical info along with details of what is currently used.

http://www.tagheuer.com/f1/timekeepi...tion/index.lbl

[thebear]

Transponders are installed in the cars. They re-broadcast a unique to the car signal each time they pass a loop embedded in the pavement. The loops are located every 100m around the track as well as in the staging boxes on the starting grid. This allows the FIA officials to determine if anyone has `jumped the start' as well as the lap times and track position.

[Silk Cut Jaguar]

In the days of F1 Digital there used to be a fibre optic loop around the entire track (which is how we got onboard shots in the Monaco tunnel too) so the little dots on circuit maps were extremely accurate, now F1 Digital is gone I think the teams (like twig said) use clever computer tricks together with the sector times to achieve the same thing.

[kristof14]

Didn't Renault cunningly tie in their launch control to this system so that when the timing loop in the grid position activated when the lights went out the car launched?
Or was it just a rumour i heard at the time!?

[Adam43]

I think it was only suggested that this was possible. Obviously Renault's starts were still amazing after changes to LC were introduced. Nowadays they actually class a car that starts less than a reaction time* after the lights go out to have jumped the start! This was introduced to get around this.

*I forget the time they chose for this (something like 0.06s).

[Knowlesy]

I think that was recently abolished and you can start bang on the lights now.

[Adam43]

I'd prefer that. If you are jammy and guess correctly then good luck to you!

[j_hampton2000]

>think the teams (like twig said) use clever computer tricks together with the >sector times to achieve the same thing.

The teams will also use their real-time telemetry systems to determine where the cars are on the track. I THINK these telemetry systems are linked into a GPS for more accurate positioning, but do know that they can be linked to the timing beacons to send data.

The timing transponders can be either infra-red or radio and send a unique code for each car to the receivers which are either built into the track or mounted on the trackwall (usually at each of the 'sector' points).

I doubt there would be much use for any '3D' positioning data.

Jim.

[Dan Fielden]

Is it not by a transponder that cuts the beams on the track

[j_hampton2000]

>Is it not by a transponder that cuts the beams on the track
Eh? How else do you think it works?

Here's some more info on transponders; http://www.amb-it.com/modules/?name=...=39&systemID=8

...you'll see the base system can have a GPS interface.

Jim

[thebear]

Originally Posted by j_hampton2000

>Is it not by a transponder that cuts the beams on the track Eh? How else do you think it works?

It works by Radio Frequency. The antennae are embedded in the track and broadcast a signal which is picked up by the transponder and the frequency or other characteristcs are altered uniquely by each car.

This signal is rebroadcast back to the embedded antennae, sensed and relayed back to the computers at Race Control. There it is decoded and displayed on the monitor. All of this transpires within 0.0001 second or less.

IR beams are used in `beacons' for `in car' lap counters and timing.