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Old 2 May 2012, 07:53 (Ref:3068195)   #1
dat240
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nissan 240rs help

Hi Im new so thanks for the time. I have a 240rs which Im looking for some infomation about. It was a Blydinstein built car, that was first registered in 1986.
During its restoration I found a date under a accident repair which was in 1986, but before it was first registered. Is there any body who knows anytime about BBR's testing. Such as what cars were used. I have photos of the car when the first owner brought it and it appears that the damage was before he brought it.
Many thanks

Last edited by dat240; 2 May 2012 at 08:17. Reason: wrong dates
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Old 2 May 2012, 13:48 (Ref:3068297)   #2
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Welcome!

I'm not a rally expert but that car was registered pretty late by 240RS standards as the cars ran competitively between 1983-85(ish)

There were a handful that ran in the UK Open or National rally series and one of them even found its way onto the circuits in the UK Thundersaloon series driven by one Barrie Williams, as well as the Northern Sports/GT Challenge centred around Oulton Park.

My recollection is that Tony Pond and Timo Salonen drove Nissan Europe entered cars in some World and European events in 1983/84, Terry Kaby joined the programme in 84/85 but that was mainly in Britain plus a few Euro rallies. I can't recall which other drivers used them?

I think Alistair Sutherland also rallied one quite well on the National scene in 1985 before he got his 6R4?

Hope that spurs people into further assistance for you.

My initial reaction is that your car sat somewhere unused and then was registered up to be sold on in 1986?
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Old 2 May 2012, 20:02 (Ref:3068461)   #3
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My initial reaction is that your car sat somewhere unused and then was registered up to be sold on in 1986?
A test car? Which would also maybe explain the accident damage too

There is still at least one 240RS that competes on a regular basis in the UK - we've been up against it a few times (we can beat it in the wet on twisty stages ). I think it's owned by Ian Roberton (and I think it's actually chassis #1).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rutthenut/3414759191/

Maybe see if you can get in touch with the people that built the car? It's surprising just how much info you can get if you manage to get hold of the right people.
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Old 3 May 2012, 06:52 (Ref:3068596)   #4
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240RS

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Originally Posted by dat240 View Post
Hi Im new so thanks for the time. I have a 240rs which Im looking for some infomation about. It was a Blydinstein built car, that was first registered in 1986.
During its restoration I found a date under a accident repair which was in 1986, but before it was first registered. Is there any body who knows anytime about BBR's testing. Such as what cars were used. I have photos of the car when the first owner brought it and it appears that the damage was before he brought it.
Many thanks
If you would like to send me a PM I can put you in touch with a friend who has a lot of information about them. Alex
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Old 4 May 2012, 14:46 (Ref:3069363)   #5
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Was there one racing in modified saloons in the mid 90's?
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Old 4 May 2012, 16:48 (Ref:3069405)   #6
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Welcome!

I'm not a rally expert but that car was registered pretty late by 240RS standards as the cars ran competitively between 1983-85(ish)

There were a handful that ran in the UK Open or National rally series and one of them even found its way onto the circuits in the UK Thundersaloon series driven by one Barrie Williams, as well as the Northern Sports/GT Challenge centred around Oulton Park.

My recollection is that Tony Pond and Timo Salonen drove Nissan Europe entered cars in some World and European events in 1983/84, Terry Kaby joined the programme in 84/85 but that was mainly in Britain plus a few Euro rallies. I can't recall which other drivers used them?

I think Alistair Sutherland also rallied one quite well on the National scene in 1985 before he got his 6R4?

Hope that spurs people into further assistance for you.

My initial reaction is that your car sat somewhere unused and then was registered up to be sold on in 1986?
Blydenstein ran a Nissan Europe 240RS appearing on UK events as late as 1986 for Louise Aitken-Walker

Apart from the already-mentioned Salonen, Pond and Terry Kaby at WRC and European/UK international level, Shekhar Mehta was also a regular in them, usually on the rougher WRC rounds where the 240RS was a bit more in it's element, and the long-haul trips to events outside Europe- Acropolis, Safari, Ivory Coast, New Zealand, Argentina- though he did at least one RAC in one as well
http://www.flickr.com/photos/45777493@N06/4315937909/

I can remember David Llewellin and the late Mark Lovell (IIRC he won a National Championship in one?) also appearing in them on UK national events around 1984/5, and there were quite a lot around at national privateer level in the UK and Ireland.

Bert Mk2 mentioned Ian Roberton currently running a 240RS- He had at least one back in the mid-80's as well, apparently the ex-Aitken-Walker car:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/howiendlynne/4102191381/
http://www.240rs.jp/HXI%207635.html

Another 240RS name that comes to mind on national events, and sometimes overseas is James Prochowski (with UB40 sponsorship)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/16788879@N02/3120382111/
http://i78.servimg.com/u/f78/13/28/48/21/240rsp11.jpg

They were a surprisingly popular privateer car in the UK and Europe, bearing in mind that they weren't usually as competitive as something like an Ascona/Manta 400, especially on tarmac events
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Old 4 May 2012, 18:26 (Ref:3069445)   #7
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Was there one racing in modified saloons in the mid 90's?
I am sure you are thinking of the one Whizzo drove in Thundersaloons, & dud suprisingly well with as I recall.
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Old 5 May 2012, 05:35 (Ref:3069568)   #8
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Ian Roberton owns/drives chassis 1, reg number UIA 4275. He also owned/drove the Aitken-Walker car HXI 7635.
My car has the reg number HXI 7637. IT was first registered 18-2-85 and the vehicle acquired 18-2-86, what ever that means. I know that Blydinstein was supplying cars and parts well into 86 and later in the middle east. My car went from England to do rally Argentina then it went to Jordan for a few years then to Lebanon where I found it. I feel that the car had seen some work before it was taken to Argentina, Ive spoken to the guy who took it to Argentina and didnt think it had been but when I look at the photos taken at that time it shows the signs of the damage.
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Old 6 May 2012, 10:09 (Ref:3070178)   #9
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I am sure you are thinking of the one Whizzo drove in Thundersaloons, & dud suprisingly well with as I recall.
I checked programmes last night. Can't see a Nissan entered at Mallory, sorry but thought I'd taken a photo. If I find anything will put pic on here.
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Old 7 May 2012, 05:46 (Ref:3070488)   #10
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Thanks. Apart from the thunder saloon car, would any one have any photos of crashed-accident damaged 240rs rally cars. Just mite stumble on a photo of the car.
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Old 7 May 2012, 07:22 (Ref:3070509)   #11
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Looked in Barrie William's book, reckon he was racing the Nissan in about 1983/84.
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Old 7 May 2012, 09:01 (Ref:3070548)   #12
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1985 in Thunderloons
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Old 7 May 2012, 10:17 (Ref:3070581)   #13
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Another 240RS name that comes to mind on national events, and sometimes overseas is James Prochowski (with UB40 sponsorship)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/16788879@N02/3120382111/
http://i78.servimg.com/u/f78/13/28/48/21/240rsp11.jpg
James died a few years ago but the guys who worked for him must be about.
UB40 must have a lot of info / photos of the car /s.

Dont forget Andy Dawson ran one in UK & possibly european events.
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Old 7 May 2012, 13:26 (Ref:3070647)   #14
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Thanks. Apart from the thunder saloon car, would any one have any photos of crashed-accident damaged 240rs rally cars. Just mite stumble on a photo of the car.
Have a look here and maybe you want to make contact with 'Mr. RallyRetro', Fergus McAnallen. There were a lot of these in Ireland and as can be seen from above, many/most of them had Northern Ireland registration plates. A lot of them went through the hands of Kenny McKinstry and it might be worth making contact with him here to see if yours was among them.
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Old 7 May 2012, 20:45 (Ref:3070844)   #15
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1985 in Thunderloons
I don't recall if Whizzo was still involved by the time I saw it (and I seem to have lost the race programme), but I think the 240RS in Thundersaloons might have been around for at least couple of seasons- I'm sure the only time I saw it was at Silverstone, at one of those GM Dealers-sponsored Thundersaloon meetings, which would have been 1986 or even 87

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. There were a lot of these in Ireland and as can be seen from above, many/most of them had Northern Ireland registration plates. .
That's a thought- as you say, most of the UK-based 240s (and a few of the European ones) seem to have had Northern Ireland, or occasionally Isle of Man, registrations. There were only a handful with 'mainland' plates as I remember- I noticed Terry Kaby in PVV646Y in one of those RallyRetro pics:

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...rRally1985.jpg

I suspect there was presumably some kind of tax or Type Approval reason for them not being registered on the mainland? (In a similar vein, didn't a lot of the David Sutton Audi UK Quattros have IoM plates?)

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Old 7 May 2012, 22:15 (Ref:3070892)   #16
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KA I think it was a guy called John Bell who entered the car in '85 with Whizzo as the second driver. One ran up north a couple of years later i think it was Brian Litherland who raced either the same car or a different one? This was the guy who owned or leased a VK Holden at some point too?
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Old 8 May 2012, 06:11 (Ref:3070968)   #17
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Thanks- I can't remember who ran the 240RS I saw in Thundersaloons, but was pretty sure it was '86/7, so presumably not the Bell/Williams combo.
I was looking out some pics earlier- can't find one of the 240RS so far, but other cars at the same meeting include the Stars & Stripes Manta, the GMDS Carlton (plus the Senator/Commodore, by then sold on to Pete Stevens), and a Quattro- Andy Dawson-run as I recall. Modsaloons were also on the programme, and Brian Chatfield's ex-Bastos Rover is in one shot, so I reckon it has to be 1987

Litherland's name rings a bell, but probably from the Thundersaloon threads either on here or Autosport Nostalgia forum. If I can find a pic of the Nissan, I'll post it.

Here's the 1985 Bell/Williams car:
http://www.racing-car-photos.com/picture/number1704.asp

Apparently it's still alive, under restoration by a guy named Tom Murphy, who also has an ex-Mark Lovell car from 1984, WIA3104.
http://www.project-831.co.uk/aboutus

(Lovell's 1985 National Championship car, FIW6902, in distinctive Catrol colours is apparently now in NZ)
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...Stages1985.jpg
http://www.drivesouth.co.nz/newsitem...g-nissan-240rs
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Old 8 May 2012, 08:32 (Ref:3071023)   #18
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Chassis 103 has just come up for sale. This was originally sent over to South Africa but is a UK registered car.

Nissan 240RS Chassis #103
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Old 8 May 2012, 13:04 (Ref:3071185)   #19
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From memory there was a good article in CCC some years back (it would have to be because CCC stopped being published some years ago !)
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Old 8 May 2012, 13:26 (Ref:3071197)   #20
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That's a thought- as you say, most of the UK-based 240s (and a few of the European ones) seem to have had Northern Ireland, or occasionally Isle of Man, registrations. There were only a handful with 'mainland' plates as I remember- I noticed Terry Kaby in PVV646Y in one of those RallyRetro pics:

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...rRally1985.jpg

I suspect there was presumably some kind of tax or Type Approval reason for them not being registered on the mainland? (In a similar vein, didn't a lot of the David Sutton Audi UK Quattros have IoM plates?)
I'm not sure that there would have been any tax or type approval reasons for registering them in N.I., it's possible they were landed there by a prep company such as Sydney Meeke or Kenny McKinstry... quite a few of the Manta and Ascona 400s were N.I. registered by Meeke's I think.
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Old 8 May 2012, 14:39 (Ref:3071236)   #21
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I'm not sure that there would have been any tax or type approval reasons for registering them in N.I., it's possible they were landed there by a prep company such as Sydney Meeke or Kenny McKinstry... quite a few of the Manta and Ascona 400s were N.I. registered by Meeke's I think.
I wondered about that- I'd assumed that Bill Blydenstein was the main source of the 240RS in Europe, in which case it seemed odd that the majority of UK-registered examples (including some of the European privateers as well as the UK/Irish ones) were registered in N.I, or occasionally on the Isle of Man, if they were being built and prepped at Shepreth.
As you said, quite a few of the GMDS Mantas were N.I registered- and thinking about it, a lot of the David Sutton/Audi UK Quattros wore Isle of Man plates...

Just been looking at 240RS pics on around the web, and found something interesting in a description of the ex-Ian Roberton car FIW9125 (he seems to have had two or three) which probably accounts for this:

'The first keeper of this car was Blydenstein Racing, registered at an office address in Northern Ireland, and there is a goverment document supporting this...
Thereby confirming a link to that prestigious tuning company, if only as the importer...
In the 1980's, the Northern Irish Registration Office wasn't linked to DVLA in the UK, as it is now, and the DVLA V5 Registration document doesn't begin listing owners until 1989...'

http://www.nissan-240rs.com/RHD_Niss..._Rallycar.html



If Blydenstein had an office in N Ireland, it makes perfect sense that a lot of the cars had N.I. reg numbers, as they were presumably imported via there
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Old 8 May 2012, 14:49 (Ref:3071242)   #22
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Thanks- I can't remember who ran the 240RS I saw in Thundersaloons, but was pretty sure it was '86/7, so presumably not the Bell/Williams combo.
I was looking out some pics earlier- can't find one of the 240RS so far, but other cars at the same meeting include the Stars & Stripes Manta, the GMDS Carlton (plus the Senator/Commodore, by then sold on to Pete Stevens), and a Quattro- Andy Dawson-run as I recall. Modsaloons were also on the programme, and Brian Chatfield's ex-Bastos Rover is in one shot, so I reckon it has to be 1987

Litherland's name rings a bell, but probably from the Thundersaloon threads either on here or Autosport Nostalgia forum. If I can find a pic of the Nissan, I'll post it.

Here's the 1985 Bell/Williams car:
http://www.racing-car-photos.com/picture/number1704.asp

Apparently it's still alive, under restoration by a guy named Tom Murphy, who also has an ex-Mark Lovell car from 1984, WIA3104.
http://www.project-831.co.uk/aboutus

(Lovell's 1985 National Championship car, FIW6902, in distinctive Catrol colours is apparently now in NZ)
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...Stages1985.jpg
http://www.drivesouth.co.nz/newsitem...g-nissan-240rs
I can remember Andy Dawson winning a special saloon race in the Quattro around that time.
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Old 8 May 2012, 15:00 (Ref:3071246)   #23
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I wondered about that- I'd assumed that Bill Blydenstein was the main source of the 240RS in Europe, in which case it seemed odd that the majority of UK-registered examples (including some of the European privateers as well as the UK/Irish ones) were registered in N.I, or occasionally on the Isle of Man, if they were being built and prepped at Shepreth.
As you said, quite a few of the GMDS Mantas were N.I registered- and thinking about it, a lot of the David Sutton/Audi UK Quattros wore Isle of Man plates...

Just been looking at 240RS pics on around the web, and found something interesting in a description of the ex-Ian Roberton car FIW9125 (he seems to have had two or three) which probably accounts for this:

'The first keeper of this car was Blydenstein Racing, registered at an office address in Northern Ireland, and there is a goverment document supporting this...
Thereby confirming a link to that prestigious tuning company, if only as the importer...
In the 1980's, the Northern Irish Registration Office wasn't linked to DVLA in the UK, as it is now, and the DVLA V5 Registration document doesn't begin listing owners until 1989...'

http://www.nissan-240rs.com/RHD_Niss..._Rallycar.html



If Blydenstein had an office in N Ireland, it makes perfect sense that a lot of the cars had N.I. reg numbers, as they were presumably imported via there
Chicken / egg or egg / chicken?
I would have thought that WBB had an office in Ireland purely for vehicle registration purposes.
As others have already mentioned, a number of cars wore either Irish or IOM registrations, so I can only assume that there must have been a reason for doing this. maybe taxation, insurance or type approval? but I'm sure there will have been a reason for doing it, which is why they's have set up an office (or just an address) there.
(PS, I'm not implying that anything underhand was going on, just that there must have been a sound reason for doing this).
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Old 8 May 2012, 15:01 (Ref:3071247)   #24
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I can remember Andy Dawson winning a special saloon race in the Quattro around that time.
Plain white car as I recall? It certainly did a few Thundersaloon races as well

(Edited to add- just had a quick search, and came up with some pics on the Pistonheads forum from a July '87 Thundersaloon meeting at Silverstone- which I guess must be the one I was at.)

The Dawson Quattro:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...6071987003.jpg

and returning back on topic- the 240RS in the pit garage- Bryan Litherland/Rhoddy Harvey-Bailey according to the forum post I found it on
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...6071987012.jpg
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Old 8 May 2012, 15:26 (Ref:3071263)   #25
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I wondered about that- I'd assumed that Bill Blydenstein was the main source of the 240RS in Europe, in which case it seemed odd that the majority of UK-registered examples (including some of the European privateers as well as the UK/Irish ones) were registered in N.I, or occasionally on the Isle of Man, if they were being built and prepped at Shepreth.
As you said, quite a few of the GMDS Mantas were N.I registered- and thinking about it, a lot of the David Sutton/Audi UK Quattros wore Isle of Man plates...

Just been looking at 240RS pics on around the web, and found something interesting in a description of the ex-Ian Roberton car FIW9125 (he seems to have had two or three) which probably accounts for this:

'The first keeper of this car was Blydenstein Racing, registered at an office address in Northern Ireland, and there is a goverment document supporting this...
Thereby confirming a link to that prestigious tuning company, if only as the importer...
In the 1980's, the Northern Irish Registration Office wasn't linked to DVLA in the UK, as it is now, and the DVLA V5 Registration document doesn't begin listing owners until 1989...'

http://www.nissan-240rs.com/RHD_Niss..._Rallycar.html



If Blydenstein had an office in N Ireland, it makes perfect sense that a lot of the cars had N.I. reg numbers, as they were presumably imported via there
Hhhmmm... that's a strange one indeed. To my knowledge there would be no type approval or tax reasons for doing this. I do know that many of the Japanese car manufacturers tested models in the Republic of Ireland before launching them elsewhere in Europe and during the 1970s and 1980s, the Dublin import facilities of these organizations [particularly Nissan and Toyota] was much bigger than was required for the Irish market. Maybe they were brought in to the South and then registered in the North ? I'm just grappling at straws there though... but Blydenstein having an office in Northern Ireland is a new one on me... and we're sure that wasn't Sydney Meeke's organization there ?
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