Special Saloons - the early cars (1965 - 1975ish!) - Page 5

driftwood · 14 May 2007, 17:43 (Ref:2385001)

well it looks like PHH had car from DTV then Barak till 83 ( i know he raced it for 1 year irca 82 /83cos he walloped my fathers car breaking a wheel on the startline )who sold to Gerry
im chasing a foto of Barak in the car to get posted to prove im not going insane

Rennen · 15 May 2007, 14:42 (Ref:2393995)

I went with Tony Strawson to Ian Richardson's workshop in Ampthill when the Corvair was being constructed. Bob Torrey did a lot of the original fabrication working for Ian. The car was in fact a steel Chevy Corvair shell with tube subframes. The doors, boot and bonnet were fibreglass copies, and the wheels, brakes and suspension were CanAm McLaren unused spares, out of McLarens skip! The monster 7.6 litre mid engine, was intened to have the Hilborn fuel injection system with those long unequal length trumpets, but they didn't fit within the regulation silhouette (back window) shape and had to be shelved in favour of 4 downdraft Webbers.

After Richardson ran it a few times, it was purchased by Marshall Wingfield, Gerry let his old mate Mick Leary race it at Silverstone. Mick just planted the ole right peddle and when he looked in the mirror he thought it must have been a false start, as no one was in sight! He came thundering around Woodcote with a smile as wide as the apperture of his Bell Helmet!

Rennen · 17 May 2007, 18:26 (Ref:2385007)

Quote:

Originally Posted by COLIN STUBBS

Im sure I have one somewhere if I ever get to know how to upload the pics......

I've never known how to do that either! (it's an age thing) I've got loads of pics I took, of Strawson's ex Mick Hill Capri, with various engines 'Strawb' put init, from original 4.7 Gurney Westlake thru 5 litre F5000 dry sump lump to a 6.2 Chevy RAT motor! All handled with 100% reliable ease by an old E Type Jag gearbox and diff! The last motor produced so much torque it used to crack the laminated windscreen every meeting!

Correction to my reference to 'F3' corners on Hazelwood's DAF...that should have read F2.

driftwood · 13 Jun 2007, 14:18 (Ref:2385119)

Baby bertha news
spoke to phill barak today
he said he bought car from Fred Cliffe in yorkshire he raced E type Modsports
Phil won the BRSCC north SS series with the car circa 83
did 1 season in the car then sold it back to Gerry

GBRM · 13 Jun 2007, 15:00 (Ref:2385121)

Quote:

Originally Posted by driftwood

Baby bertha news
spoke to phill barak today
he said he bought car from Fred Cliffe in yorkshire he raced E type Modsports
Phil won the BRSCC north SS series with the car circa 83
did 1 season in the car then sold it back to Gerry

Well that would definitely match what I thought, as Dad raced Baby B at the end of '83.

Slightly off-topic but I had a long chat with the guy who now has Mega Bertha and he's getting on with getting her going, watch this space!!

VIVA GT · 13 Jun 2007, 15:17 (Ref:2385124)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBRM

Well that would definitely match what I thought, as Dad raced Baby B at the end of '83.

Slightly off-topic but I had a long chat with the guy who now has Mega Bertha and he's getting on with getting her going, watch this space!!

Mega Bertha? I thought I knw everything about the racing Vauxhalls, but don't recognise this. What is it, the proposed Cavalier Coupe Thundersaloon? I thought that was only an artists impression in OHFTB?

Tim Wilkinson · 13 Jun 2007, 16:23 (Ref:2385127)

From quick glance at OHFTB, Cav was meant to use an 8.1l Reynolds-Chevrolet V8, and was built enough to look right although it wasn't finished for photo work. I don't know if the pics are mock-ups, but they look like pics rather than artist's impressions. It's the caption to those photos that christens the car Megga Bertha. Rather annoyingly the chapter "the car that never was" spends far longer talking about cars that very much were.

I'm glad the car is around, what's planned for it? It would have been overkill for club racing at the time, but it does look (and the idea of it sounds) lovely.

GBRM · 14 Jun 2007, 09:44 (Ref:2385137)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Wilkinson

From quick glance at OHFTB, Cav was meant to use an 8.1l Reynolds-Chevrolet V8, and was built enough to look right although it wasn't finished for photo work. I don't know if the pics are mock-ups, but they look like pics rather than artist's impressions. It's the caption to those photos that christens the car Megga Bertha. Rather annoyingly the chapter "the car that never was" spends far longer talking about cars that very much were.

I'm glad the car is around, what's planned for it? It would have been overkill for club racing at the time, but it does look (and the idea of it sounds) lovely.

It was a rolling chassis, they never got to the stage of putting the engine and gearbox in it. It was going to be either as above or a turbo-charged engine but I agree it would have probably been overkill. I have a letter from December 1975 confiming Dad would be racing the Cavalier and that Baby Bertha would be used as a backup, much the same as with Baby Bertha and Bill Dryden racing Old Nail as a backup.

The guy who has it has done quite a bit of racing in the past, but I think he's looking more at Sprints and Demos, but who knows. It's not going to be quite as planned due to cost restrictions but it should still be pretty good and should look fantastic.

P.S. I agree with the chapter thing, most annoying and I did tell Dad that!!

Camaroz · 25 Jun 2007, 02:29 (Ref:2394495)

One of the ex-Works Rovers came to Australia (1972?) and was campaigned by Jim Smith. It ran with Camel Cigarettes sponsorship in its later years and was dubbed "Clarrie the Wonder Camel". It later went to Vimy Ridge Racing (Jarrett's) in SA and I beleive is currently under restoration by its current owner. If anyone knows Ivan Partinase (spelling?) please let him know of this thread.

Or if anyone knows how to contact Jim Smith, he is the Lambo importer for Australia.

Cheers

Farbrooke · 13 Aug 2007, 18:26 (Ref:2385238)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Rear

Some early 1973 A/Sports I'm devouring at present say the Millington Firenza [i]was[i] an ex Gerry/DTV car. Millington kept his car until at least 1975, so it can't have been the one Bill Dryden had. How many 'non-Bertha' Firenzas did DTV build for Gerry I wonder?

Assuming by 'non Bertha' you are meaning type 'old nail' Lotus 904 engined I am aware of 3 - Old Nail - The Millington car which is understood to have been sold to Guyana taken out to 2.6 and now lives in Florida - Chassis number 16V3 was infact an HC Viva (same floor pan) Blydenstein built for Des Donnelly in Ireland and sold in 1973 to Guyana and back with Gabriel Konig here in Ireland and was out at Pheonix Park last weekend until the clutch failed

Understand Bill Dryden built his own - Doubtless GBRM can disprove my understandings

GBRM · 14 Aug 2007, 09:13 (Ref:2385248)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farbrooke

Assuming by 'non Bertha' you are meaning type 'old nail' Lotus 904 engined I am aware of 3 - Old Nail - The Millington car which is understood to have been sold to Guyana taken out to 2.6 and now lives in Florida - Chassis number 16V3 was infact an HC Viva (same floor pan) Blydenstein built for Des Donnelly in Ireland and sold in 1973 to Guyana and back with Gabriel Konig here in Ireland and was out at Pheonix Park last weekend until the clutch failed

Understand Bill Dryden built his own - Doubtless GBRM can disprove my understandings

I don't think I can disprove your findings, I can only say what I think I know!!

There was only ever one Old Nail, which was the Firenza practiced at the famous Crystal Palace race and then raced at Llandow (sp?!) and Lydenn where the two Viva GTs got written off and DTV were stuck with the Firenza/Old Nail.

Dad raced this car in everything up until Big Bertha was ready and then Bill Dryden raced her a few times. Once Big Bertha was "written off" (another story) Dad reverted back to Old Nail until Baby Bertha was finished, at which point Old Nail was officialy retired and presented to Dad in '76 and never raced again as MEga had been commissioned and Baby Bertha was to be a back-up in the same way Old Nail was.

DTV did build several other "Old Nail Replicas" and you also have to remember part of the DTV ethos was that the man off the street could buy 95% of what they used for racing, so people made up their own versions too.

I know of, in no particular order, several DTV-built/Replicas from the day, Piggy Thompson's (James Thompsons Dad) car, Dave Millington, Tony Davies and Bill Dryden.

Gabriel Konig's car was built as sister car to Old Nail, but not a replica as such, and there might be a few other sister cars to speak.

Bill Dryden definitely had a DTV built car, whether it was the white SMT Old Nail looking one or not I'm not sure, will check with Gerry J when I speak to him. I don't know where it is and I think the same goes for the Dave Millington car.

Tony's car is a DTV built one and is still going strong in the CTCRC Classic Modified Saloons.

The Thompson car was sold through ebay about 2/3 years ago and I think a DSG member bought it, I'll check with the club.

As for Baby Bertha, only one ever built and it's ownership has been traced on here previously, obviously now owned by Joe Ward. Same with Mega Bertha, only one and it is currently being finished/restored.

Hope this all helps!!

driftwood · 14 Aug 2007, 09:50 (Ref:2385255)

Excuse me but what is Mega Bertha? foto anyone?

GBRM · 14 Aug 2007, 11:19 (Ref:2385271)

Quote:

Originally Posted by davyboy

Wasn't that the Cavalier Coupe ?

http://www.vboa.org.uk/_images/dtv/image010.jpg

That's the one!! Cavalier that was cut down the middle and then widened by 6 inches. Was going to have a 8 litre or a 2.5/3.0 turbocharged engine but was never finished as DTV went rallying, shame.

It it being finished/restored at the moment and hopefully we'll see it soon.

COLIN STUBBS · 14 Aug 2007, 18:13 (Ref:2385293)

[QUOTE=GBRM]DTV did build several other "Old Nail Replicas" and you also have to remember part of the DTV ethos was that the man off the street could buy 95% of what they used for racing, so people made up their own versions too.

I know of, in no particular order, several DTV-built/Replicas from the day, Piggy Thompson's (James Thompsons Dad) car, Dave Millington, Tony Davies and Bill Dryden.

Heres one of em,,,,,

GBRM · 15 Aug 2007, 11:39 (Ref:2385308)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farbrooke

All the ones I've been talking about had the Lotus 904 engine bored to 2.3L or above - Gabriel's Viva still has. Her spare 904 engine is only 2.0L though as originally made. Be good to see the programme info.

Totally agree Greg there can be only one 'Old Nail' but it evolved over its racing life - have an undated picture (suspect 1973) of Old Nail and the Viva side by side in the paddock at Silverstone with the engine position the same as the Viva. Both with the big bonnet bulge and flat fronted.

Probably early '73, as end of 73/ beginning of 74 the Droop Snoot was put on. I have pictures of GK's car now and the engine is definitely in a more conventional position, Old Nail has a spacefram effect front nearside chassis leg and wheel arch.

zahistorics · 21 Sep 2007, 21:56 (Ref:2385330)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

I think the South Africans produced a V8 Mustang engined Capri as a road car, if anyone fancies building a replica one of my customers dad's Capri 2 litre has just failed the MoT, I think he has had it from new and he wants what he can get for it but would be cheap I am sure.

The above was posted a very long time back on this thread, but yes there was a V8 Capri produced in South Africa. Spawned some amazing racers:

lots more info and pics on my site http://www.perana.org/

John

**John Turner** · 11 Nov 2007, 10:42 (Ref:2395279)

And did you know that Gerry drove Pope's Aston V8 engined Vauxhall Magnum, at least once? I don't think I imagined that since I'm sure I was there!!! Masses of power (twin turbocharged 5.3 V8?) but not too good through corners if I recall correctly. I'm sure Gregor can tell us what Gerry's comments were concerning that.

GBRM · 11 Nov 2007, 11:17 (Ref:2395281)

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Turner

And did you know that Gerry drove Pope's Aston V8 engined Vauxhall Magnum, at least once? I don't think I imagined that since I'm sure I was there!!! Masses of power (twin turbocharged 5.3 V8?) but not too good through corners if I recall correctly. I'm sure Gregor can tell us what Gerry's comments were concerning that.

Dad drove (tested) John's car quite a few times, as John was Dad's next door neighbour and the car itself was built out of one of the original Viva GT's written off at Lydden Hill in '71 which John bought and re-built and raced a bit. I think it was about '74 when he then did the Magnum/Aston conversion.

The only race I definitely know Dad did in it was at Silverstone '82 and it was like an exocet missile in a straight line and the noise it made was amazing, it was my second track memeory, being a 4 year old and sitting on the steps of the old bridge on the start/finish straight and actually being scared by the noise!!

Dad loved it but it was very under-developed and a bit agricultural but then so would you be if built in a chicked shed along with the chickens!!

As an aside, when the car stopped racing it was kept in a barn next to John's Aston Martin Lagonda which was the protoype car, absoloutely amzing beast and I think the idea had been to make that into a racecar but Supersaloons had sort of died out then.

GBRM · 11 Feb 2008, 09:44 (Ref:2395292)

Quote:

Originally Posted by socram

Does anyone know what happened to gentleman farmer, John Pope's Magnum Aston Martin? It was road registered too I seem to remember...

Ian Richardson's Chevvy Corvair? Welly Potter's 7 litre Skoda, Mick Hill's F5000 VW and many more. That was the best racing ever. Who cares who won; it was just the spectacle and like the current F5000 revival (very strong in NZ), the sheer noise. Can't really beat an older V8 on full song as the very high revving current F1 cars sound more like a Playstation car to me. Slightly unreal and lacking in character somehow.

John still has the Magnum and the last track action I know it definitely had was '99 at Thruxton.

The Corvair my late Dad bought and sold, can't remember who to though.

GBRM · 11 Feb 2008, 21:56 (Ref:2395302)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBRM

Possibly. I think that particular race though it was still Dad's car and Tony drove it for him. I have got an atricle on it somewhere, will try and dig it out.

Right, I found the sale details of the Corvair.

Dad bought it from Ian Richardson on the 30th March 1976 for £5,754 and sold it on the 31st March 1978 to J Leary (Jack I think, if so an old friend of Dad's) for £5,754!!

It did have a number plate and I'll see if I can find some info from the DVLA.

MikeManNZ · 18 Feb 2008, 09:46 (Ref:2395017)

The car ran a Twin Cam all it's life IIRC.

The BDG was for the Capri.

Started at just under 2L, then 2.1L twin cam. They got the engine out to 2.5L but it was a hand grenade.

My father was Dave's race engineer for the time he was running the Escort, he left as the Capri was about to take over.

This is all from memory, but I have pointed dad at this thread.

sterling49 · 18 Feb 2008, 20:06 (Ref:2395019)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeManNZ

The car ran a Twin Cam all it's life IIRC.

The BDG was for the Capri.

Started at just under 2L, then 2.1L twin cam. They got the engine out to 2.5L but it was a hand grenade.

My father was Dave's race engineer for the time he was running the Escort, he left as the Capri was about to take over.

This is all from memory, but I have pointed dad at this thread.

I was at a presentation that "the Brode" did just before Xmas, and I asked this question, it was a 2.1 litre twink, FoMoCo couldn't get it to work, but Run Baby did! I used to see this car almost weekly at Brands Hatch, along with young Gerald in a certain Vauxhall

MikeManNZ · 18 Feb 2008, 21:59 (Ref:2395020)

Yeah the engine uesd liners with a special sealing compound developed by Ciba products to have the same thermal expansion rates as the cast iron Ford used in the Twin Cam blocks. The blocks were machined out to the water jackets and the liners bonded in to give a finished bore of 90mm.

I think the pistons were custom Cosworth items and an 81mm crank from I think Farandon made 2.1L.

The big issue was making rear axels live with the torque apperantly.

If anyone plays GT Legends you might like this http://www.nogripracing.com/details....enr=5427&pic=2

Dan Rear · 19 Feb 2008, 15:45 (Ref:2395021)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeManNZ

The car ran a Twin Cam all it's life IIRC.

The BDG was for the Capri.

Started at just under 2L, then 2.1L twin cam. They got the engine out to 2.5L but it was a hand grenade.

My father was Dave's race engineer for the time he was running the Escort, he left as the Capri was about to take over.

This is all from memory, but I have pointed dad at this thread.

I don't recall any Capris with a BDG, Mike. Don't think Brodie ever had one, do you mean the GA?

MikeManNZ · 20 Feb 2008, 02:52 (Ref:2395023)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Rear

I don't recall any Capris with a BDG, Mike. Don't think Brodie ever had one, do you mean the GA?

Not 100% on the Capri to be honest.

I think the development started before the GAA was available, but certanly the GAA would have been a better engine once it was available in a Capri.

I will check with my father tonight and see if he knows.

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