[WEC] Porsche Prototype Discussion

[TF110]

A bit different take, from the other side of the hotel
https://twitter.com/bigfatcheque/sta...57556026675204

[CyberMotor]

Originally Posted by TF110

A bit different take, from the other side of the hotel
https://twitter.com/bigfatcheque/sta...57556026675204

Was there a car in there somewhere?

[Spyderman]

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2016/0...irst-time.html

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2016/0...irst-time.html

And this other shot:


We do not get a chance to see the turbocharger and ERS-H unit on these shots.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Porsche testing again in Abu-dhabi.

Apparently it is tyre testing. No one allowed to change anything on the car.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

And this other shot:


We do not get a chance to see the turbocharger and ERS-H unit on these shots.

Funny. It looks like the links to the hires pictures have been deleted

Additional pictures are available on the motorsport-total.com website.

[gustavobamba]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Apparently it is tyre testing. No one allowed to change anything on the car.

Exacly... that´s why the car in the test is 2015 spec :-)

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by gustavobamba

Exacly... that´s why the car in the test is 2015 spec :-)

Test two weeks ago was not a tyre test (as far as I know), and yet they tested in 2015 spec.

[gustavobamba]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Test two weeks ago was not a tyre test (as far as I know), and yet they tested in 2015 spec.

I read somewhere they were only testing spec 2016 engine and spec 2016 hybrid. Not 2016 aero

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by gustavobamba

I read somewhere they were only testing spec 2016 engine and spec 2016 hybrid. Not 2016 aero

2016 Aero coming later. Prologue.

[MihokS5]

What's the deal with this photo:

[chernaudi]

Still looks largely in 2015 specs. The front fender holes look like they've moved forward like they're supposed to be for 2016. Not quite sure if the 919 will be getting a huge update, at least in LM spec. But new aero bits are supposed to be ready in time for the WEC Prologue.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Still looks largely in 2015 specs. The front fender holes look like they've moved forward like they're supposed to be for 2016. Not quite sure if the 919 will be getting a huge update, at least in LM spec. But new aero bits are supposed to be ready in time for the WEC Prologue.

That's the 2015 bodywork, they are testing new mechanicals. Some of the aero has been updated but, it's basically the 2015 car.

[Spyderman]

2016 Engine, 2016 hybrid system, 2016 front suspension, etc, etc, 2015 aero. They tested with LDF in the morning and HDF in the afternoon.

[wolfhound]

Porsche have done over 4000km over 5 days in their Adu Dhabi test.

That looks like a decent test distance.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122853

[CyberMotor]

Originally Posted by MihokS5

What's the deal with this photo:

Oh my, Porsche North America have opened their new NA headquarters in Atlanta and look what they can do.

[Spyderman]

Durheimer says that racing in the World Endurance Championship costs more than running an F1 team for Audi and Porsche. “The technology is greater than that in F1 and the levels of investment are therefore greater.”
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...29049&page=443

[brownninja97]

Well that is certainly shockingly, i highly doubt they get the money back from the cars and tech that they get in return though then. Sounds a little worrying for the long term.

[chernaudi]

I can see this as being true if Audi or Porsche were engine suppliers or their combined efforts. It's thought that both Audi and Porsche are spending around $200 million USD for LMP1, which is comparable to what a front-mid pack F1 team would be spending.

But then again, ROI from a sponsorship notoriety stand point, that's why the Volkswagen Group to F1 rumors have never stopped. They can be an engine supplier to a F1 team for about the same money and get a wider press coverage. Sportscar racing, sadly, was, is, and probably will always be, a relative niche sport outside of the LM24 compared to NASCAR or F1.

[chernaudi]

Also, we have to remember that as recently as 2013, Audi were running on a budget less than half of what they're spending now (75 million Euros, or about $85 million USD at the current exchange rate).

The rise in cost is in response to the increased incentive to use hybrid technology. In that way, the ACO/FIA screwed up if they didn't expect at least Toyota and Porsche to jump for as high as they can get as quick as they could get there.

[TF110]

I don't think the hybrid part of the regs makes one spend $200 million. I think the fact that both teams have to invest in facilities and that sort to produce these cars or turn to outsourcing (windtunnel, chassis construction etc.) is the real reason. They're not like TMG who can make just about everything in-house either. When Toyota were in f1, it was the same thing. Investing in the resources to make TMG what it is now costs a lot of money.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by TF110

I don't think the hybrid part of the regs makes one spend $200 million. I think the fact that both teams have to invest in facilities and that sort to produce these cars or turn to outsourcing (windtunnel, chassis construction etc.) is the real reason. They're not like TMG who can make just about everything in-house either. When Toyota were in f1, it was the same thing. Investing in the resources to make TMG what it is now costs a lot of money.

One of the main principles of the Porsche LMP1 project is to build almost everything in-house. Porsche has it's own wind tunnel.

The real issue is in the development costs of the very complicated systems. They are expensive (very sophisticated materials) and take a lot of time and need very well paid (and highly qualified) staff,

[Artur]

VAG spends more on WEC because it is a combined effort of two of it's brands. The tech developed, though, will go to their cars and ultimately makes them more competitive on the market, thus increasing sales and profits. It's the way VAG operates, remember that they are the company that spends the most on R&D, around the world, and the only other car manufacturer in the top 10 is Toyota, on 7th.

Would people buy more VAG cars because they would see them winning in F1? Has it worked for Renault when they were winning with RB or solo? I think it's not easy to translate F1 marketing into sales, otherwise, we would see lot's of manufacturers there

$150-175m(the lastest german source, which I trust more) for each is not that much on an annual basis considering these teams do an awful lot of the R&D that VAG would do anyway.

But I always expected Audi to leave since Porsche announced it's return. It does seems kind of redundant to have two brands/segments of the same company competing against each other

[turboguy]

The sport has always gone through periods of boom and bust. When the regulations have been stable, numerous manufacturers have gotten involved and the top tier grids have been very strong in numbers and diversification.

However with rule changes come opportunities, and manufacturers who want to promote their ability to adapt and develop cutting edge technology will see it as an opportunity to differentiate themselves form their competitors. Porsche/Audi/Toyota have done this, and nissan joined the party for the exposure (though their execution left a lot to be desired).

If a manufacturer can leverage their motorsport technology development, the cost to compete will be significantly mitigated.

For example, Beretsky has shown in presentations a direct connection between their long success at le mans with gasoline and diesel technolgy, and the step change in the brands customer perception. The audi that everyone recognises today is significantly different to how the brand was perceived 10 years ago. The Audi TDI technology was developed by Beretsky and his motorsport department, then transferred to the production car environment - not as a production vehicle adaptation to motorsport.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but Porsche remain the only manufacturer to make a profit from their motorsport activity. Their investment in leading technology to secure multiple wins at Le Mans (in all classes) without doubt strengthens their brand from a marketing perspective, but the technology developed in these cars filters to the road going versions quite quickly. GDI as used in the RS Spyder is a good example for a start, and there are many more examples throughout their history. Porsche really does use the motorsport environment as a test bed for future road vehicle technology.

Porsche's target for LMP2 at the time with the RS Spyder was to beat Audi's LMP1 - a feat they achieved twice (but i am sure all you guys knew that). In fact the rules were changed to ensure a P1 car would always have the advantage at Le Mans when the RS Spyders were getting too close.

As long as this development and transfer of technology continues, these manufacturers will continue to compete even when the costs are prohibitive to other manufacturers who cannot make the link between motorsport technology and road car relevance so obvious.

Audi in F1 (probably not porsche), I guess it could happen in future. I watch formula 1 for interest sake, but it is a shadow of its former self in terms of providing a platform to showcase new technology. It is an exercise in aerodynamics. The combustion efficiency is genuinely impressive, but a number of other elements in the powerunit and powertrain are not even as good as some production vehicle technology - it is mildy ridiculous.

[Deleted]

Webbo's saying that Porsche has shown Mercedes how to pull of big mileage in testing conditions. But I think they would have done them anyway with their current tanks. There's also some nice follow up to the infamous DC quotes
http://www.dailysportscar.com/2016/0...o-testing.html