LM24 Best Sportscar Never to win Le Mans - Page 2

Fogelhund · 5 Jul 2005, 20:56 (Ref:1348220)

I've got to come back and restate the Mercedes CLK as a car over the Toyota GT ONE's.

Mercedes spent the time and money to compete for full seasons, to perfect their cars, entertain us, and were utterly dominant in FIA GT.

The Toyota's showed up only at LeMans, and frankly didn't deserve to win for this reason alone. As we've seen since, it pays to race the cars and iron out the wrinkles... something Toyota did not do. Wonderful cars, incredible looking, but they lost for the lack of competing.

The Mercedes lost on dumb luck mostly. In 98' starting from pole, (and third) and having power steering issues in both cars.

Quote:

Norbert Haug, Mercedes-Benz Motorsport Chief said : "Both cars retired with engine failures which were the result of broken steering servo pump drives. We never experienced such a problem during the 10,000 kms of testing we did. I 'm very sorry for the AMG crew and our drivers. They have worked faultlessly and are not responsible for the retirements."

In 1999, the CLR-LM had the obvious take off issues, but had qualified well, and was running as high as second before being withdrawn.

Anyway, after competing in the FIA GT for several years, plenty of testing and dollars, Mercedes IMHO deserved to win much more than did the Toyota cherry pickers, who wouldn't show their face in other races or series.

jhansen · 5 Jul 2005, 21:02 (Ref:1348226)

I would agree with that Fogelhund. I find the Toyota GT-One effort very disappointing. The cars actually raced less than the Bentley, which is the subject of many negative comments in the other worst thread. I do find it ironic that so many pay homage to the Toyota effort, but many are now slagging Bentley's marketing display.

TheNewBob · 5 Jul 2005, 21:20 (Ref:1348246)

I think it's probably because the Toyota looked simply awesome - the Merc probably did at first, but then again it had been seen many many times when Le Mans came around - although Merc put the time and effort in, although partly the end result was the death of the old GT1 class...

MulsanneMike · 5 Jul 2005, 21:51 (Ref:1348278)

Porsche 917 Longtail. Purpose built for Le Mans but never came home with the win.

FastJoel31 · 6 Jul 2005, 01:19 (Ref:1348379)

Ferrari 333sp

Toyotas TS010 and TS020

Mal · 6 Jul 2005, 07:20 (Ref:1348517)

The 333sp is a good choice. It had bags of potential but was never developed by the factory and therefore was way too fragile and was more aimed at Daytona than LeMans I beleive.

The Merc CLK is a good choice too, everyone that year was sure it was going to steamroller the event. I remember the mercedes crew being stunned when they were both out before dusk.

The GT1 toyota is a definate candidate - remember it got to within sight of victory when a tyre failure put him out

brielga · 6 Jul 2005, 08:59 (Ref:1348577)

The 512 Coda Lungas.... I still watch every now and then to see if Steve fails to block # 8 in the last lap.....

Nordic · 6 Jul 2005, 09:32 (Ref:1348599)

The 512 is a good choice, as is the GTone.

What about the Porsche 908? it won almost every other race in its long career and many guise's, but it never pulled off the big one. It came very very close once, but just missed out.

Its near cousin the 936 did the job a couple of times.

Francesco · 6 Jul 2005, 10:20 (Ref:1348633)

The 333Sp had 1 or 2 class wins but no overall wins... and it's a shame for such a wonderful car, if only Ferrari wasn't so bothered winning the "Karting with Bernie championship" they would have got some developement and probably won Le Mans from 95 to 98

And of course the Toyota, wonderful, fast.... unlucky car

krt917 · 6 Jul 2005, 12:23 (Ref:1348712)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mal

The Most beautiful has to be the Ferrari P4.

The Best is probably the Toyota GT1?

Those are the two that spring to mind. I think that it's worth remembering that the P4 was a brilliant sportscar as well as beautiful one. In engine terms, it was way more advanced and highly-stressed than the 7-litre MkIVs which it went up against at Le Mans in 1967. Given that they were flogged most of the distance, 2nd and 3rd behind the winning Mk.IV was a superb effort. I think it also won the World Championship for Ferrari that year too?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

Porsche 917 Longtail. Purpose built for Le Mans but never came home with the win.

Good call! The '71 cars were really quick, but alas, unreliable.

Mercedes/Sauber seem to have produced several cars that were superb but failed to win Le Mans. The SSK, 300 SLR, Sauber C11, and CLK were all, in their own ways, brilliant sportscars that never won the big one. It's ironic that both of the Merc's LM wins came when they weren't the quickest, especially with the 300SL in 1952 (the words 'foot', 'Jaguar', 'themselves', 'shot', 'in', 'the' come to mind).

paul-collins · 6 Jul 2005, 13:00 (Ref:1348736)

The car that I wish had've won LM is the F312PB. Never entered, alas. But 1972 was all about Ferrari otherwise...

superfox2000 · 6 Jul 2005, 13:09 (Ref:1348744)

The Dallara built Ferrari 333SP won everything bar Le Mans! It seemed to go on forever! Lola's of modern time have also disappointed at Le Mans!

tblincoe · 6 Jul 2005, 14:27 (Ref:1348809)

either the Toyota GT-One or Mercedes CLK-GTR LM in my book, but i think that the GT-One takes it for the unbelievable circumstances behind its last loss in '99

krt917 · 8 Jul 2005, 14:51 (Ref:1350344)

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul-collins

The car that I wish had've won LM is the F312PB. Never entered, alas. But 1972 was all about Ferrari otherwise...

They got pretty close in '73 but for the engine failure on the lead car. Mind you, I think that the Matra MS670 was a better sportscar (although I'm a fan of the 312PB).

TRuss · 8 Jul 2005, 19:24 (Ref:1350515)

I had forgotten about the 333SP.

My picks have all been stated.

The Toyota GT1 was the first thing that came to mind.
The CLR-LM was just beautiful to me. That was a shame.
I was also really pulling for the Porsche GT1s in 1997 also.

TRuss · 8 Jul 2005, 19:25 (Ref:1350519)

also, also, also! That last sentence sounds really stupid.

**Aysedasi** · 9 Jul 2005, 10:08 (Ref:1350950)

Don't worry about it......

Svierge · 9 Jul 2005, 17:23 (Ref:1351229)

Another vote for the Sauber C11 here - looked and sounded fabulous and was the class of the field in WSPC, but it all went wrong at LM the year the Mazda won.

The Porsche GT1-96 is a candidate for me, too. Ignoring the controversy for a moment, they appeared at their first race, ran like trains for 24 hours and dominated the class - but it wasn't quite enough.

The Toyota was a one-race wonder (apart from the Suzuka 1000km) and for that reason I was glad it never won (even though it looked amazing).

AFCORSE51 · 18 May 2015, 00:56 (Ref:3538777)

The MC-12...

Steptoe · 18 May 2015, 04:44 (Ref:3538817)

Jaguar XJR 14 , shame it never ran past qualifying
I always had a soft spot for the Panoz LMP1's shame Audi R8 appeared at the same time otherwise the story could have been different.

CTD · 18 May 2015, 07:14 (Ref:3538835)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AFCORSE51

The MC-12...

It was never allowed to race at Le Mans, so it is kinda "iffy" if it counts.

Lola T70 for me. The Ford GT40 was just better.

isynge · 18 May 2015, 08:11 (Ref:3538842)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AFCORSE51

The MC-12...

Congratulations on resurrecting a decade old thread which gave me an opportunity to revisit what I think may have been my first post on here...

Not sure the intervening 10 years have given me cause to change my vote much from the LC2. Taking into context, Pescarolo should have won in 2005, simply because they'd built something so specifically for the rules that year and the alignment of stars that allows a privateer to beat a manufacturer comes along so infrequently.

Riffing on this theme a little, the best sportscars to only win once recently are the 908 and the R15, but perhaps the main theme to emerge is revisiting the old theme of why Toyota have never won Le Mans?

**Aysedasi** · 18 May 2015, 08:30 (Ref:3538845)

Quote:

Originally Posted by lj79

I'll go with the TS020, with TS010 in second.

Yep, this gets my vote too.

Suddenly realised this thread is 10 years old!!!

rich07 · 18 May 2015, 09:07 (Ref:3538854)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AFCORSE51

The MC-12...

There should be a thread of 'best sportscars never raced at Le Mans'. What a shame we never saw the likes of Vitaphone or a Maserati factory squad tussling with Prodrive and P&M. A sight to behold. We know how Vitaphone fared against AMR at the 2005 Spa 24hrs but one wonders how they would've gone against the Corvette juggernaut.

The TS020 gets another vote for best car to never win with the Panoz LMP1 a close second.

GT6 · 18 May 2015, 09:10 (Ref:3538856)

There are just so many that choosing 1 is almost impossible but if really pushed then from my first years the old Aston Nimrod, should have won but for an unfortunate accident that was not it's fault IMHO

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