[WEC] Porsche Prototype Discussion

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by sssssssss

porsche seemed to (marginally) have the best ultimate pace at silverstone, so i definitely wouldn't say disappointing. also, their reliability seems really good, while audi still had issues with the second car. audi's new car looks really strong indeed, but i think so does toyota's, which was the only one maybe not having a very silverstone-specific setup. i expect toyota to be quicker at spa and le mans. i think porsche were impressive, but you can't win all the time. audi came back with a vengeance, it was to be expected. and i'm sure there's still more to come from porsche this season.

Its disappointing because they were pushing when they had a 40second lead and it was not necessary to take the risks that were taken and resulted in the loss of their fastest car. It is disappointing because the #2 was substantially slower on average than the #1 . It's disappointing because Silverstone seems to be a very difficult track for Porsche. Finally, if their low DF package is not very good, they don't stand a chance at Le Mans .


Sent from my XT1092 using Tapatalk

[sssssssss]

i think their performance looks very promising for the coming races. i also think audi's no8 car stopped in the middle of the track was quite embarrassing. thankfully they compensated with a win (and a pole). but porsche seem pretty much bullet-proof, as far as reliability is concerned.

anyway, looking at how quickly and how easily both the no1 and no8 cars were taken out of the race, i feel audi and porsche have really taken a big risk with going to 2 cars only for the whole season, including le mans. in the 24h race, there's sooo much stuff that can happen to 2 cars.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Porsche were given the win because of a technical infringement by Audi.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/123838

[ederss7]

I still think Porsche have everything to dominate this season again, inclunding the great race, Le Mans. Also, Audi and Toyota have a new car, so this may be a season to learn the weakness of each car. IMO Porsche is favorite for Le Mans.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Porsche were given the win because of a technical infringement by Audi.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/123838

This is no way to win. I'm sure Porsche are not rejoicing over this "win".

Sent from my XT1092 using Tapatalk

[Spyderman]

Looks like Audi will appeal : http://www.endurance-info.com/en/aud...-fia-decision/
(This is getting more and more like F1)

[cokata]

Interesting. It is a huge pity that after such a good fight Audi get DQed, but if they were indeed too low i don't know what they are going to appeal. There is no room for interpretation regarding this. It's pretty black and white.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by cokata

Interesting. It is a huge pity that after such a good fight Audi get DQed, but if they were indeed too low i don't know what they are going to appeal. There is no room for interpretation regarding this. It's pretty black and white.

ESM got disqualified last year from a podium place in LMP2 for the same reason, don't forget.

[YorkshireLad]

Originally Posted by cokata

Interesting. It is a huge pity that after such a good fight Audi get DQed, but if they were indeed too low i don't know what they are going to appeal. There is no room for interpretation regarding this. It's pretty black and white.

It's also pretty black and white for cars to stay with the track limitations, unless you've have a cock-up! anyone notice how often MOST cars were crossing the white line with all four wheels at copse to keep momentum up? Surely that's worth a penalty as much as this!

[turboguy]

A few mm drop in ride height can have a huge impact on performance with the downforce levels these cars are running. It may be a case of AUDI not fully getting to grips with their new suspension systems - but regardless - it is black and white. There is too much to be gained by allowing a team to exceed the allowed limit, so I am sure the penalty will be tough.

Porsche are definately faster than last year, and have been working to make the 8mj hybrid system more reliable compared to last season, so I am sure it is promising for Le Mans again this year - we will see....

Silverstone has traditionally been the worst circuit for the porsche power, and it rewards the massive torque the audi engine produces. I am sure porsche will not be disappointed if the result swings their way - but you have to shake your head regarding the incident with the no.1 car

[turboguy]

track limits always seems to be an issue. if someone exceeds the limit they get penalised - but if they all do it it seems the officials figure no-one is getting an advantage so they keep quiet - its very inconssistent.

[Artur]

Originally Posted by ederss7

I still think Porsche have everything to dominate this season again, inclunding the great race, Le Mans. Also, Audi and Toyota have a new car, so this may be a season to learn the weakness of each car. IMO Porsche is favorite for Le Mans.

At Le Mans, ICE is far more important and Audi won't have trouble recovering it's 6MJ, unlike at Silverstone where there is little braking. I think Porsche will need to count on Audi's questionable reliability at LM because, on pace, I fear the 919 might have a hard time keeping up.

Originally Posted by turboguy

Silverstone has traditionally been the worst circuit for the porsche power, and it rewards the massive torque the audi engine produces.

Not according to the Audi drivers.

Porsche have far bigger torque with it's 8MJ and Audi can't even harvest their equivalent 6MJ on such layout.

Also, the straights are not long enough to benefit R18's superior ICE power.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

This is no way to win. I'm sure Porsche are not rejoicing over this "win".

Sent from my XT1092 using Tapatalk

I agree, I don't like to see driver/teams win or lose over a technicality, it does detract. I do wonder how much of an advantage, Audi got?

[PorscheFanNo1]

Originally Posted by Artur

At Le Mans, ICE is far more important and Audi won't have trouble recovering it's 6MJ, unlike at Silverstone where there is little braking. I think Porsche will need to count on Audi's questionable reliability at LM because, on pace, I fear the 919 might have a hard time keeping up.


Not according to the Audi drivers.

Porsche have far bigger torque with it's 8MJ and Audi can't even harvest their equivalent 6MJ on such layout.

Also, the straights are not long enough to benefit R18's superior ICE power.

This is a good point, and it makes you wonder why both Audi and Toyota keep sticking with only recovering from the brakes. Porsche have a clear advantage in not having to rely 100% on braking recovery, they have a lot more margin on how much energy to recover.

[cokata]

The reason why Audi has done historically so well at Silverstone is that until Porsche debuted their HD package at Nurburgring last year, only Audi had a true HD package. And silverstone is one of the most "downforce hungry" curcuits on the planet.

It has nothing to do with torque (and for the millionth time Audi's diesel engine has to use much longer gears which means that the torque that reaches the wheels is not more then with the petrol cars).

[TF110]

Originally Posted by PorscheFanNo1

This is a good point, and it makes you wonder why both Audi and Toyota keep sticking with only recovering from the brakes. Porsche have a clear advantage in not having to rely 100% on braking recovery, they have a lot more margin on how much energy to recover.

Maybe because it robs efficiency from the engine. At a place like Silverstone it may make more sense. But typical tracks and especially Le Mans, braking recuperation is more than enough without the drawbacks of the 'heat' system.

[Spyderman]

From what I can understand from this, the aero package used by Porsche at Silverstone was last year's aero package (slightly updated) and re-homologated. They will introduce a low DF package , a High DF package and a LM package this season.
https://translate.google.com/transla...uto&edit-text=

[Adam43]

and the LD one is different to the LM one?

When does the rule limiting the number of aero packages come into force? Next year?

[Spyderman]

No. It is enforced already. I think that because the current package is really the 2015 package, it may not count towards the three. In other words: The rule may be that you are allowed to "introduce" 3 new packages during this season. I could be wrong of course, and we may not be understanding this correctly due to the brilliant google translate.

[Creep89]

This year I think!?

[TF110]

3 this year and 2 next year. Hopefully they leave out turning vanes and underbody aero upgrades from that limit.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by TF110

3 this year and 2 next year. Hopefully they leave out turning vanes and underbody aero upgrades from that limit.

Yes , that's why I think this current one does not count. It is the 2015 package just with slight mods to the vanes and such.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

No. It is enforced already. I think that because the current package is really the 2015 package, it may not count towards the three. In other words: The rule may be that you are allowed to "introduce" 3 new packages during this season. I could be wrong of course, and we may not be understanding this correctly due to the brilliant google translate.

So you do leave the door open for confusion via that article and I agree with that potential for confusion. When I look at the sporting and technical regulations I can't actually find anything that specifies how many bodywork packages there can be, or how it defines what a package is. In the technical regulations there is 1.11 in Appendix H which is very vaguely worded...

"The definition of bodyworks, subject to limitation of their amount per season, will be specifically homologated."

So no mention of how many, and what type of tweaks (if any) are allowed to the configuration (i.e. add remove dive planes, etc.) This same vague text is called out in a DSC article from a few months ago, but goes on to elaborate that it will be three configurations in 2016 and two in 2017...

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2015/1...rt-1-lmp1.html

I assume the limit of three for 2016 is in the regulations (technical or sporting), but I just can't find it. Maybe it's in some other document.

Regardless of the provenance of the configuration used at Silverstone, I find it hard to believe that it doesn't count toward one of the three. If it didn't then Porsche could use any prior 2015 configuration PLUS three new ones for 2016? In reality bits of the 2015 configurations (such as the creative low downforce engine cover/fenders at COTA) are not legal for 2016 because some of those tricks have been outlawed. But the point stands that I doubt you can pick and choose either old 2015 configurations or new 2016 configurations.

That article also gives conflicting info. That may be down to translation, or just outright accidently misleading prior to translation. It both implies the Silverstone configuration, a low downforce, a high downforce and a "LM spec" (total of four and in effect two different low downforce configurations?). But then later on treats the LM spec and low downforce as being the same because they will be testing that soon may use that configuration at Spa in addition to LM... Spa weather depending. The article also says that the Sliverstone configuration was re-homologated for 2016. Which would imply it counts toward one of the three for 2016.

Overall, I suspect that the rules allow only three configurations and there is no special case for using prior year configurations. That Porsche will have (1) the Silverstone configuration, (2) a low downforce (optimized for LM) and (3) a high downforce package. The 2016 Silverstone configuration may have been a compromise package that was just based upon what they had from 2015, but tuned up for higher downforce for Silverstone?

Richard

[gustavobamba]

Could we expect a radical bodywork for Le Mans???

Or just new front fender´s ?!?!?!

[wolfhound]

Around launch time I remember someone from Porsche saying they would have 3 different body/aero specs this year
a high downforce package for Silverstone and Spa,
a low downforce spec for LM
and a new high downforce spec for the races after June.