If you want to race do it on the track!!!!!!!!

[krusty1]

Originally Posted by Oaksnaf

Id like to hear your reasonings as to why speeding on a freeway is fine. Who cares about the law, I know this road like the back of my hand so 120 is fine...... Yep.

Agreed, you may know the road like the back of your hand but it is all the other variables. The guy on the other side of the road that is not paying attention, drunk, tired etc. My dad used to say that he trusted my driving but it was every other idiot on the road that worried him.

Last time I checked trees and poles don't move out of the way when you stuff up!!

[Chatters]

First off let me say it's not me doing 110 on the highway. In fact, I don't even own a license. I meant to say most people think it's OK to do 120 on a highway because they think they know their surroundings, when in actuality both you guys are right, it's unacceptable. I guess the message I was trying to get across didn't come out they way I intended. Now I do know a lot of people that travel at 120, and qutie frankly I don't like being in the same car as them. 110 is fast enough for me, except if I'm watching the V8 on telly.

[Senna05]

Having your vehicle cut off at 110hm/h would be very dangerous. Ever been stuck in the middle lane of a freeway, with a truck in front of you and a truck then merging across to form the 2 lanes? Pretty frightening - Answer? Speed up as quickly as bloody possible and get into the other lane without interupting traffic. Requires you to sometimes go past 110.....

Apply this to country roads, trying to get past a rig. Straight road, no cars coming, but you still want to get past the truck as quickly and safely as possible.

I'm really hoping this topic doesn't degenerate, as it's presenting alot of interesting views and might open some of our younger forum members eyes a little.

Also, with GPS fitted factory vehicle, the technology is there. I think it's Lexus that will pop up telling you are over the speed limit for a particular road. If thats the case, it can be conceivable that this computer could limit the vehicle? (possibly send a message from the satellite to the RTA and then you cop your fine in the mail - no need oto be pulled over in this society of busy people!)

[dsg]

Remove all seat belts, remove all airbags and place a six inch razor sharp bayonet blade sticking out of the centre of the steering wheel. Then see how nice everyone is to each other while driving on the roads.

[Oaksnaf]

Senna 05,
And what do we want people to be concentrating on more though? Their speedo or the road.

Unfortunately systems that you are suggesting can only, and will only take away a certain degree of driver concentration. And using your example of the truck on the freeway, with that system you would be booked. So how do you get out of that one?

And overtaking people on country roads, booked.

[Trevor]

Humans are natural risk takers, it it what has got us to the top of the food chain and I don't think we will ever be able to train that out of humans, it is too much of a natural response. And we all know how risk taking manifests itself in drivers. Unfortunately some people don't live to enjoy the spoils of "risk taking" behaviour.

I am not a big supporter of off-road type driver training, yes it can hone the skills to RESPOND to an emergency situation for SOME people, unfortunately some research suggests that all this type of training does is increase incidents, mostly rear-enders and the reason? People are taught their limits and being the type of animal we are we will always push the limits.
We are natural risk takers, if we weren't we would still be hanging around in trees, the risk taker in us is what drives us onward and upward.

I am a believer great that any training is better than no training, but unfortunately our Government(s) don't take driving licensing seriously.

Using the logic of OH&S Risk Management and using the Heriachy of Control, the best way to fix motor vehicle incidents is to have the machine (car/truck/bus/motorcycle) so that it can't hurt anyone, and current technology is doing a great job of this, with air bags, seat belts, crumple zones, etc, etc, but there is more they can do to protect us from ourselves. If you have a machine in say, the manufacturing industry that kept hurting people it would be tagged out and not to be used until it was "fixed"

I am a great believer in making the car more safe, there is still much much more they can do.

And know to be really controversial, I believe that all cars MUST be speed limited to 120km/h, they do it to trucks and buses (and yes I know that there are fast ones out there), but the concept is a good one.

We must be protected from ourselves, we can't rely on people to do the right thing because they won't/can't, and the 16-30 ages is when we are at our worse

[krusty1]

Originally Posted by dsg

Remove all seat belts, remove all airbags and place a six inch razor sharp bayonet blade sticking out of the centre of the steering wheel. Then see how nice everyone is to each other while driving on the roads.

That has got to be the funnies thing I ever heard. Noone would dare even toot eachother!!!!! you are a star!!!!

[Senna05]

Originally Posted by Oaksnaf

Senna 05,
And what do we want people to be concentrating on more though? Their speedo or the road.

Unfortunately systems that you are suggesting can only, and will only take away a certain degree of driver concentration. And using your example of the truck on the freeway, with that system you would be booked. So how do you get out of that one?

And overtaking people on country roads, booked.

Sorry mate - they were more tounge in cheek comments.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Oaksnaf

And what do we want people to be concentrating on more though? Their speedo or the road.

Isnt that what the annoying speed alert thing is for?

I travel in country Victoria regularly, and the speed cameras are from the airport to where I end up just about everywhere along the road.

The cruise control becomes my friend, the licence keeper....

[Oaksnaf]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Isnt that what the annoying speed alert thing is for?

I travel in country Victoria regularly, and the speed cameras are from the airport to where I end up just about everywhere along the road.

The cruise control becomes my friend, the licence keeper....

I wasn't actually referring to the cruise control.

I was referring to this:

Also, with GPS fitted factory vehicle, the technology is there. I think it's Lexus that will pop up telling you are over the speed limit for a particular road. If thats the case, it can be conceivable that this computer could limit the vehicle? (possibly send a message from the satellite to the RTA and then you cop your fine in the mail - no need oto be pulled over in this society of busy people!)

which was in fact a tongue in cheek comment.

And thanks for clearing that up Senna05.

But on the note of cruise control, are all new cars fitted with it?

[GTRMagic]

Cruise is in the new 380, Falcon & Commodore base models as standard equipment (not sure about the Camry/Aurion)

[Pro Racer]

my dad says to me you worry me when you get your licence as most young guys hoon around and are cocky and try to impress the ladies.as much as i want mylicence i got to agree with him that you should be older to get your licence as you will be more mature.

and he also says its not you when your inexperienced its other bloody idiots that think they are good crusing in there 300kw clubby's and gt's and they always come off second best when they are doing 100 in a 50 zone and they lose it and hit a pole.

CAR v POLE

WINNER = POLE

[Chatters]

Originally Posted by pwr fan

and he also says its not you when your inexperienced its other bloody idiots that think they are good crusing in there 300kw clubby's and gt's and they always come off second best when they are doing 100 in a 50 zone and they lose it and hit a pole.

That's true, and half the time you end up being an innocent victim in someone elses accident. The responsible young drivers like you (and me soon) still have to cop all the public attidutes towards younger drivers because they think we'll be like the other morons on their L's and P's. Insurance rates for us are alarmingly higher compared to 40 year olds, it's a pain in the arse to be a young driver right now.

[williamsf1]

Originally Posted by bestfit

Unfortunately governments only appear to be serious about these problems for as long as the latest fatal crash is making the news.
About 18 months ago, just around the corner from where I live, a teenager took his father's GTR for a joy ride while his father was overseas. He proceeded to wrap it around a power pole at over 200kph (in a 50kph zone), killing himself, his girlfriend and another mate.
It was front page news for a week or so. The public was outraged, the government was outraged and promised all sorts of committees and enquiries to stop it happening again. With the public suitably appeased, the story drops out of the papers and all the fancy promises are dropped and forgotten until the next horror smash. Then it starts again.
In these situations governments in general are great at saying what you want to hear, but are useless when it comes to doing what you want them to do!

I think you will find it wasn't a GT-R but just an average skyline (GTS4 I beleive)... and it is never the car that does the speeding, so lets not tarnish a great cars rep. for the sake of one idiot.... the media and police already have a fasination with the GT-R thinking it is the devil, lets not add to it eh?

[Oaksnaf]

Originally Posted by williamsf1

I think you will find it wasn't a GT-R but just an average skyline (GTS4 I beleive)... and it is never the car that does the speeding, so lets not tarnish a great cars rep. for the sake of one idiot.... the media and police already have a fasination with the GT-R thinking it is the devil, lets not add to it eh?

Thats exactly right. People who blame the car, or any hint of it are only making excuses for what could be their friends and family in the incident.

"Too powerful" "Too fast"

At times it acts like a smoke screen. Just like all those people out there who always say "Bikes are too dangerous".

Its not the machine, its the person behind the machine that is at fault.

[dsg]

Originally Posted by Oaksnaf

Thats exactly right. People who blame the car, or any hint of it are only making excuses for what could be their friends and family in the incident.

"Too powerful" "Too fast"

At times it acts like a smoke screen. Just like all those people out there who always say "Bikes are too dangerous".

Its not the machine, its the person behind the machine that is at fault.

The same argument was made for guns but most statistics show that if you reduce the availability of weapons the misuse of those weapons also decreases. A sad fact of society.

[peckstar]

now they just use knives for the same result

that would support thats its the people theory

its interesting that small or unpowerful cars can also wrap themselves around trees

[1200Datto27]

It was a GT-R, the car was used in the Duttons rally iirc.

Oaksnaf, do you live in the Yarra Valley?

I know that speed camera's have changed my driving habits, I used to be a IT tech and would be in the car a lot (around 100,000k's per year) as I serviced a company that had mission critical systems spread across the state, and I used to sit on about 130kph on the country highways during good daylight hours (I never speed at dusk/night in the contry ) and the cops wouldn't have any issues with this. Nowadays though, I have been booked for doing a 104 in a hundred zone, mainly because I was concentating on the road, and not my speedo.

I personally believe that one of the reason's that there are more single vehicle/ country road accidents now is that drivers are so in fear of the police booking them for creeping a little bit over the limit, that they;
1, Tire themselves out by excessive concentration on the speedo.
2, Don't look at the road/conditions and assume that because they are doing under the limit that they are safe (it's what the ad's say so it must be right)
3, Spend a longer time driving as they want to get to where they are going without stopping, and the low speed limits hinder this.

What is needed is funding reallocated to;
1, Get more visible police officers onto the roads, and allow them to have the discretion to either book or not. This will cut down on hoonish behaviour, and allow drivers to relax a bit and concentrate on their driving.
2, Promote the causes of crashes better, let's get away from the "speed kills" mentality, it doesn't. Improper speed for the conditions does cause crashes. Let's properly educate people on the facts that matter.
3, Improve the roadworthiness of cars on the road, how many times to you see cars with non working lights, windows so dirty that they can't be seen through, bald tyres, etc. I know that when I had my WRX on the road, I would be pulled over for checks all the time, The car was modified, but it was done properly with better brakes, suspension and tyres, plus a small power increase (around 20kw's but a lot more torque) but when I was sitting on the side of the road while the cops checked out my car, numerous dungheaps would drive past.
4, Improve the education/testing of young drivers, and make everyone when they renew their license do a test to ensure that they know what the latest rules are. Germany used to have one of the hardest license test known, with the process taking about a year to do, as drivers had to pass a number of proficiency tests such as high speed driving/braking, wet/icy/snowy conditions and recovery situations. None of this drive around the block and reverse park to pass the test rubbish.
5, Improve the conditions of roads.

[Senna05]

This may be a REALLY far fetched idea, but all of thisis covered in military driving courses. Maybe National Service to straighten out some of the youngsters and a compulsary driving course to be attended by the nasho's?

(Yes, extreme, but fixes more problems than just the attitude of drivers....)

[krusty1]

Originally Posted by pwr fan

think they are good crusing in there 300kw clubby's and gt's and they always come off second best when they are doing 100 in a 50 zone and they lose it and hit a pole.

CAR v POLE

WINNER = POLE

Unfortunately it is happening all too often and yet w really don't hear about it. It is almost like we expect it so it is not as tragic. How often do you look at the easter or christmas news only to see that someone was being stupid and has had a stak. Unfortunately it is only then where it becomes big news or suddenly is more important than any other time of the year.

[GTRMagic]

I can recall hitting a tree with the C pillar of my car once...

.... a combination of leaf sprung rear end, a set of elcheapo gripless tyres, a wet road, and a car that didnt slide so much as bounced led to it falling off the road at quite a slow speed (< 40 km/h).

Totally demolished the thing.

Driver was fine, but unable to understand how it happened. The car literally fell off the road... hop hop over the crown of the road.. down the other side.. hop hop.. bang.

A good way to get rid of the car.. almost a way to get rid of me..

I have driven the same stretch of road in a brand new wagon from one of the current manufacturers and get the same feeling of the rear end skipping sideways on a series of bumps and hits that caused the original trip up nearly 20 years ago...

...it always feels like the rear wants to overtakes the front as it hits every bump in the road....

[Shiney]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

I can recall hitting a tree with the C pillar of my car once...

.... a combination of leaf sprung rear end, a set of elcheapo gripless tyres, a wet road, and a car that didnt slide so much as bounced led to it falling off the road at quite a slow speed (< 40 km/h).

Totally demolished the thing.

Driver was fine, but unable to understand how it happened. The car literally fell off the road... hop hop over the crown of the road.. down the other side.. hop hop.. bang.

A good way to get rid of the car.. almost a way to get rid of me..

I have driven the same stretch of road in a brand new wagon from one of the current manufacturers and get the same feeling of the rear end skipping sideways on a series of bumps and hits that caused the original trip up nearly 20 years ago...

...it always feels like the rear wants to overtakes the front as it hits every bump in the road....

And there lies the biggest reason for single car accidents on quiet country roads. If the state governments would just spend some money on the roads that aren't in the major cities a lot of the problems would be solved.
It is also no good to limit the speed of all cars to 110 kph, as over here in the west we have vast distances to cover, and on certain roads the police won't book you until you are above 125 kph. When you are driving for 5 hours between towns it is more dangerous at 110 because fatigue sets in earlier.
I am guessing that the same could be said for the N.T. and northern South Australia as well.

[Pro Racer]

Originally Posted by krusty1

Unfortunately it is happening all too often and yet w really don't hear about it. It is almost like we expect it so it is not as tragic. How often do you look at the easter or christmas news only to see that someone was being stupid and has had a stak. Unfortunately it is only then where it becomes big news or suddenly is more important than any other time of the year.

yes i find that odd and at the said times of year and these staks are being plastered over the front pages of papers and the first story on news bullitens and they have holiday road tolls and i say whats the bloody difference from now to all the different times of the year when staks happen in the other times of the years it is hardly reported its lucky to be page 3 news and lucky to be featured on a news bulliten.

[Gaz170]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Cruise is in the new 380, Falcon & Commodore base models as standard equipment (not sure about the Camry/Aurion)

Cruise control is useless in traffic. The wife's new Avensis has it, I only use it on the motorway.

My old Lexcen has a programmable speed alert, i'd love to be able to make it a speed limiter.

In a suburban area, program 50, and no need to look at the speedo, you can keep both eyes on the road.

And yes, there is an easy way to turn it off if you have to.

[marcus]

this thread really belongs in the road car forum.

I will move it there but by all means please continue the conversation over there