DTM budgets?

[kmchow]

It's been discussed a few times in the past, but does anyone have any rumors or estimates as to the budgets each of the manufacturers have devoted to the series?

Each DTM car is now estimated to cost about 800K to 1M US? The "new" DTM is cheaper in the areas of maintenance/upkeep? Let's do some guessing?

For example, in 05, MB ran

4x2005s at 1MUS each = 4MUS
4x2004s at 600K US each (depreciated value??)=2.4M US
let's say maintenance of 500K for Works x 4cars=2M
lett' say mainteance of 250K for 4 privateers =1M
total budget of 9.4M US??? Is that too little for the DTM??

In order of decreasing budget spending, I guess it's MB, Audi and finally Opel? Was Opel's lack of podium results more due to a lack of budget or a flawed design? It's always a combination? But if MB is spending 2X as much as Opel, it's no suprise MB will win???

I recall back in the ST days, Audi was rumored to have spent 100M US to win their 6 global ST championships???

Toyota was rumored to have spent 100M on their LeMans GT one effort, but sadly, no Lemans victory?

[mountainstar]

I think it's more like 40-50 million. Hakkinen gets 2 million euros alone.

[kmchow]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

I think it's more like 40-50 million. Hakkinen gets 2 million euros alone.

oh yeah, I forgot about driver salaries and if we should discuss in Euros b/c all the information I've ever encountered were always expressed in US $or GBP (BTCC?). OTOH, for my comparison, I don't consider driver salaries a big deal/factor b/c I expect all (or at least most) DTM drivers to be the highest calibre. So if ain't the driver, it's gotta be the cars/budgets that are responsible for the less than stellar results?

[Robert Ryan]

No wonder they are making it cheaper to get more cars in to the series...it ios way too expensive, for what are basically tube frame cars.

[kmchow]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

No wonder they are making it cheaper to get more cars in to the series...it ios way too expensive, for what are basically tube frame cars.

It's rumored the top Nascar tube frame cars cost over 300K US each already with stickers standing in for working headlights and less sophisticated engines. As well, more Nascar shells are built than the DTM which reduces R&D/construction costs? Less than a dozen DTM chassis are built every season compared to Nascar?

An average Nascar team has 4 chassis (for different racetracks) and a team costs about 10M US to run. The DTM uses 1 car regardless of what type of racetrack?

Is it out of the line then for DTM cars to cost around 800K then? The DTM seems like a bargain actually? What do people think?

[Robert Ryan]

Is it out of the line then for DTM cars to cost around 800K then? The DTM seems like a bargain actually? What do people think?
V8Supercars cost $300,000 to $400,000 Australian so even cheaper. No for the number of races the DTM is horrendously expensive . I can see why the DTM wants to bring the costs down.
An Average NASCAR team will spend mininum US$20 Million for about 12 chassis's a
season. Craftsman Truck Teams cost about US $10 million.

[FIRE]

I read somewere Opel's budget (including promotion) was around 30 million Euro.

[Erki]

I just clarify that in 2005, Mercedes ran 5 2005 cars and 3 2004 cars.
And I must say if these budgets are true then no wonder why Opel pulls out and there are so few manufacturers involved.

[flor]

I think to run a one year old car costs about 1million that isnt too much imho.

[chunder]

Why are we suprised at thgis, the Germans have never been able to run in a series where they are all competing against each other to a low budget.
THey destroyed the ITC, then sports cars with the Mercedes and Porsche cars, had a damn good go at IMSA with Audi, dominated prototype racing and now they have again destroted their own domestic championship!
The big German companies, particularly Mecedes seem utterly incapable fo running within a budget. THe hospitality is ridiculous and the cars are way too expensive, it is a closed shop really!
They are just playing tru to form

[flor]

When the ITC collapsed Mercedes had by far the lowest budget of all three participating manufacturers.

[mark_l]

I did hear that ITC budgets were on a par with F1 budgets at the time, that is the main reason for the collapse of the series.

[Go_For_Pole]

But that 's history guys, the DTM nowdays makes everything to cut costs. 1 million per par is pretty acceptable, WTCC for comparison costs 0,75 million.

[Mackmot]

Theres no way DTM is cheaper than F3 Euroseries. It would cost at least $10M to do what they do for a 2 car team. WTCC is about the $4-10M

[bella]

and what about the dtm hospitality arrangements? those are huge operations. the euroseries doesn't run anything like that at all.

[flor]

Im not talking about 1M per car for teams like HWA, that would be a number for a team like Mücke and we will see more of those teams this year. They get the cars very cheap do nearly no testing and dont run own hospitality.

[Go_For_Pole]

Obviously a works team will run on whatever budget they want (or rather have available) and I think it is probably impossible to find out the actual figures. My comment, like flor's, was for year-old, private DTM cars while the WTCC budget I mentioned was for a national program as used by BMW and Seat.

This indicates that both rules packages allow for relatively cheap high level (ie well covered by media) racing, especially when compared with other alternatives like WRC or Le Mans.

[kmchow]

I haven't really studied the DTM schedule and map closely, but perhaps having the series ran in a circular/systematic fashion across Europe instead of jumping from one side of Europe to the other side and back could reduce the travelling costs?

[kmchow]

Originally Posted by flor

Im not talking about 1M per car for teams like HWA, that would be a number for a team like Mücke and we will see more of those teams this year. They get the cars very cheap do nearly no testing and dont run own hospitality.

So you believe HWA spends more money than Mucke? I did recall reading on the DTM website that Mucke ran a really tight budget?

Yeah, there was a press release that cars are supposed to be made cheaply available to independents but they've kept it a secret as to how cheap do they mean? The DTM is not like S2000 which you can ads for the older cars being advertised?

[kmchow]

Originally Posted by bella

and what about the dtm hospitality arrangements? those are huge operations. the euroseries doesn't run anything like that at all.

Would it help the series if the DTM organizers took over the hospitality arrangements for VIPs/fan clubs? perhaps that could bring down costs for the smaller teams? I recall back in the ST/NATCC days, the organizers had offered to run/organize the hospitality tents for teams/sponsors?

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by kmchow

I haven't really studied the DTM schedule and map closely, but perhaps having the series ran in a circular/systematic fashion across Europe instead of jumping from one side of Europe to the other side and back could reduce the travelling costs?

The teams return to base after each meeting so the difference in travelling costs would be minimal.

[WebberForWDC]

Millions in what currency units? This is a bit confusing, some saying dollars and some saying euros etc.