NZV8's 2011/12

[Speedwayracer44]

Originally Posted by NZSTfan

Interesting debate going on here. I must say i watched the racing yesterday and enjoyed it as best i can...Taupo is such a cool track. But it was a real shame that there was no mention at all of the new car, the media gig they did last week, and the announcement made late last week.

Whoever is running the 'marketing' side of things for BNT's/NZV8's or whatever you want to call it, needs to be shot. If you have a new product (that supposedly is going to re-shape touring car racing in this country by getting all these other manufacturers involved) you would promote the crap out of it, and if you had your hackles up, you would rub it in with the ST guys (especially seeing as a court case is impending....although that has gone quiet hasn't it?). So what i want to know is, why has there been absolutely nothing other than a press release last friday, about this new car and class. Its just rubbish marketing, and for me it either means they are keeping something up their sleeve, or they just havn't joined the dots together yet.....methinks its more of the latter.

And if it does go ahead, with the two poster boys for BNT (Fogg/Edgell) off to ST (well at least Fogg is anyway, but i think Tim won't be too far behind) then the field is going to be pretty weak, with the exception of their other poster boy, Bargwanna, if he sticks around.

So you end up with a all-kiwi made car (which is great), looking the part (which is also great), but with a field that no-one really give two hoots about (which is not so great).

Its a bit unprofessional this whole thing to be honest, and its not making Inky and his friends look any good.

A refundable $500 deposit is desperation to sell a car, its the minimum of the other $59.5K that will sort the men out from the boys and then thats Flintstone powered! MSNZ appear to be the marketers of the class with Im sure some input from the 3 stooges, one who appears to have his hand up the rear of some high rollers, Inky and your president. Im sure there will be no MacKenzie seen again in NZV8 or Edgell by there recent resignations but maybe someone close to them can comment. I hope Inky is ready to invest his own money in the courtcase against ST or maybe he has had a handout from the same bloke. Wuld be unusal for him to put his money where his mouth is. Any links to TV from the weekend?

Rumour here is V8SC definitely dont want ST at any stage, not sure if its bad blood or just too similar but thats general chat.

[promax]

is this another "my mate told me" posts?

speed, you still haven't confirmed tony quinn's purchase of pukekohe

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by promax

err uumm well they're consistent

not that that's a good thing in this case

[DX20VT]

Originally Posted by Speedwayracer44

Rumour here is V8SC definitely dont want ST at any stage, not sure if its bad blood or just too similar but thats general chat.

Why would they want a support class that looks similar, goes nearly as fast or faster?, and is probably less than 1/2 the price?

[Speedwayracer44]

Originally Posted by promax

is this another "my mate told me" posts?

speed, you still haven't confirmed tony quinn's purchase of pukekohe

Promax u r the only one that has made this assumption from my post and your assumption is approx 1700km out, almost everyone knows that he was interested in HD and now owns cromwell. Who in there right mind would buy pukekohe.

[promax]

the post above yours was about pukekohe and you start babbling on about tony q buying it.

[promax]

Originally Posted by DX20VT

Why would they want a support class that looks similar, goes nearly as fast or faster?, and is probably less than 1/2 the price?

well the class is a V8SC ripoff

[Jerico]

Originally Posted by promax

well the class is a V8SC ripoff

So what's NZV8 then? an old Supercar ripoff? And that's being kind.

[promax]

yes

[Jerico]

Originally Posted by promax

yes

So if you race Ford Vs Holden you are a supercar ripoff then? did Supercars buy the Ford Vs Holden rivalry? when did they do that then 1968-69? and what did they pay for it?

[Speedwayracer44]

Originally Posted by promax

yes

Promax, please read this reply carefully and previous converstaion before engaging your Ford into 4th gear.

From the outside looking in ST have gone one better than copying an old V8SC, they have built a car that goes nearly as fast for 1/3 to 1/2 the price of our Aussie mates and costs 1/8 to 1/9th to run against a V8SC so thats smart thinking in my mind.

[BlueBlood]

They had a clean sheet of paper and no current teams or development series to consider, so you would expect them to be able to achieve savings.
They are also using a bigger engine to get there.
That said, they have lost something along the way.
The one make engine leaves me a little cold still.

[promax]

Originally Posted by Jerico

So if you race Ford Vs Holden you are a supercar ripoff then? did Supercars buy the Ford Vs Holden rivalry? when did they do that then 1968-69? and what did they pay for it?

oh please! there was a V8 falcon and V8 commodore class in the 60's? really? NZV8 and ST design their series around V8SC, both use the same type of car (V8 falcons and commodores), both dress up their cars like V8SC, both target the nz V8SC fanbase, both sell their series as a nz version of V8SC. how many times did ST slip "V8SC" into their press releases while promoting their series. no doubt they'll still have a "V8SC" reference on their wikipedia page.

[promax]

Originally Posted by Speedwayracer44

Promax, please read this reply carefully and previous converstaion before engaging your Ford into 4th gear.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by promax

oh please! there was a V8 falcon and V8 commodore class in the 60's? really? NZV8 and ST design their series around V8SC, both use the same type of car (V8 falcons and commodores), both dress up their cars like V8SC, both target the nz V8SC fanbase, both sell their series as a nz version of V8SC. how many times did ST slip "V8SC" into their press releases while promoting their series. no doubt they'll still have a "V8SC" reference on their wikipedia page.

That said, the Ford/Holden rivalry goes back to Bathurst in the days of Bob Jane in his Cortina, Falcon came on the scene in the 60's too, Holden had Monaros and Toranas and finally Commodores which it seems to have stuck with since the late 70's. BUT is the worm finally turning? We didn't have just those two brands until the mid-90's, and I have to say that apart from Godzilla my very very favourite days were the Group A days.

So in accepting new manufacturers into the fold, it would seem that V8SC have acknowledged that the Ford vs Holden thing has worn a little thin and the series needs some new spark. The NZV8 announcement of new manufacturers being allowed into next season's series was I suspect a bit knee-jerk but would have been a good idea had it not been a bit late.

My guess is that we would be unlikely to see any new manufacturer come into the series, as not only is it too small an audience to warrant engine development, but also most smart marketing people would see that the money is in V8ST, with a better organized marketing and already a bigger following in NZ than NZV8's ever had (although NZV8 for years could and should have had a better following).

It is a different story with V8ST for the very reason that some posters here are moaning about - the development cost is very small as there is no engine development, and most fans don't know or care about the difference. You have to remember that this forum is generally populated by people within the industry, so the technical knowledge here is a lot higher than with the general public.

[promax]

i think engine brand still matters to some.. otherwise ST wouldn't be pushing their engine as non gm or ford engine.. but a specially designed hand built ST engine

[Mr Revhead]

Which is even more lies from them

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Mr Revhead

Which is even more lies from them

I've never heard such rubbish - they are quite clear that the engine is an LS7 crate engine which apart from the rocker covers I don't even think is much modified from delivery form.

I have heard far more lies and excessive vitriol coming from the pro-NZV8 camp on this forum than I have ever heard from V8ST - have you heard Mark Petch say anything at all regarding the NZV8 crowd? No, and if this court action happens then the foolhardy types who took the action will find they end up out of pocket big time. And who's going to pay THAT bill? My guess will be the poor old competitors again.

And if they lose, watch for counter suits for damages, and that bill could get really big.

[Mr Revhead]

Never heard such rubbish? Try reading your posts out loud then

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Mr Revhead

Never heard such rubbish? Try reading your posts out loud then

Pretty childish sort of post, really, but I guess that is to be expected (listening for sounds of toys being thrown out of cot...).

[promax]

Originally Posted by Mr Revhead

Never heard such rubbish? Try reading your posts out loud then

strange how we heard the series was dead and rounds would be cancelled before/during/after each round by the pro-ST camp. they rubbished the cars, the drivers, the teams, the support classes, the designer/builders of the new car, the new car and the fans for the past 12 months now. should be interesting to see how they'll react if new gen NZV8s start popping up over the off season

[NZSTfan]

The operative word there Promax is "if"

[Pseudonym]

and who cares if they do...
Good luck to them.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by promax

strange how we heard the series was dead and rounds would be cancelled before/during/after each round by the pro-ST camp. they rubbished the cars, the drivers, the teams, the support classes, the designer/builders of the new car, the new car and the fans for the past 12 months now. should be interesting to see how they'll react if new gen NZV8s start popping up over the off season

You are confusing V8ST fandom with V8ST officialdom. Unlike officials from both MNZ and TMC, V8ST officials don't post in these forums under pseudonyms, so any comment you have seen in here regarding the future of the NZV8 series has been from fans and the odd team member. That is their opinion, and they are entitled to it.

I very much doubt that the announcement by Mr Fine on Saturday will have any bearing at all on the future of the V8ST's, which are a superior product in both audience appeal and marketing appeal. It's like comparing English Premier League to Division One, we all know where we'd like our team to be.

If the NZV8's go on to better days, then good on them, I will certainly go and see them if TMC lift the Tier 1 game from the dismal efforts we've seen in the past two seasons in terms of support classes and main course dish.

But do you really think it will happen with the same people at TMC running the show? Maybe a leopard can change its spots, but I've yet to see it happen.

[promax]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

. It's like comparing English Premier League to Division One

ummm soccer? *shrugs*

i doubt Mr Fine's announcement on Saturday was meant to have any bearing on the future of ST. the ST side have picked their path.. as have the NZV8 side.