2011 Bathurst 12 Hour

[Sheep Stations]

Sorry, but you're flogging a dead horse...

What happens if you blow the engine, stick it in hard or some other catastrophe and can't compete at the next CC event?

Categories don't just magically happen. There's huge commitment and expenditure if you're on the V8 support calendar including TV and sponsors. You need to have the numbers there to make it work.

Its no different with V8SC, just business.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Sheep Stations

What happens if you blow the engine, stick it in hard or some other catastrophe and can't compete at the next CC event?

Categories don't just magically happen. There's huge commitment and expenditure if you're on the V8 support calendar including TV and sponsors. You need to have the numbers there to make it work.

Its no different with V8SC, just business.

Just because something happens in V8SC isn't an excuse or make it correct (usually quite the opposite exactly)

What happens if you blow an engine in Friday practice or the roof of the workshop falls in on the car? There is only so much you can control and I don't see your suggestion as the 'real' reason or motivation for this rule.

I can understand the need for a commitment to the championship however this doesn't need to exclude every other event in Australian motorsport.

We have all critisized Australian GT for their 'closed shop' rulings in terms of drivers and cars over the past 5 years and rightly so. I am not sure why CC should escape the same questioning, regardless of the money they are paying CAMS.

[alfacors]

Group A & C on the Mountain in February.... yeehaa

[Wood-duck]

Originally Posted by alfacors

Group A & C on the Mountain in February.... yeehaa

A suberb coup by Mr O'Brien and his team. Long overdue. Worth the price of admission alone.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by alfacors

Group A & C on the Mountain in February.... yeehaa

Will it be a pukka race or a demonstration session?

[kingers]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Just because something happens in V8SC isn't an excuse or make it correct (usually quite the opposite exactly)

What happens if you blow an engine in Friday practice or the roof of the workshop falls in on the car? There is only so much you can control and I don't see your suggestion as the 'real' reason or motivation for this rule.

I can understand the need for a commitment to the championship however this doesn't need to exclude every other event in Australian motorsport.

We have all critisized Australian GT for their 'closed shop' rulings in terms of drivers and cars over the past 5 years and rightly so. I am not sure why CC should escape the same questioning, regardless of the money they are paying CAMS.

I dont think many CC teams would run any other events even if they could. They have to get 3 years of racing out of the one car at absolute 10-10ths every time the car hits the track. Wasting it on doing club racing is a bit silly imo, how many cars have 888 built in the past 3 years??

Cup Cars are built for sprint races... Cup S (GT3R if your even better off) is the tool to have for longer distance races, and they are faster aswell.

cheers

[Richard Craill]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Will it be a pukka race or a demonstration session?

They'll be racing. Anyone who has seen them at Muscle Car Masters will attest to that. It's awesome.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Richard Craill

They'll be racing. Anyone who has seen them at Muscle Car Masters will attest to that. It's awesome.

Eastern Creek with its large runoff areas is a little different to Bathurst with the all walls and no grass design

[Richard Craill]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Eastern Creek with its large runoff areas is a little different to Bathurst with the all walls and no grass design

That factor has never stopped other categories with equally classic vehicles from putting on a show at Bathurst..

My point is: This is no 'demonstration' category. They are a full blown "pukka" support class with practice, qualifying and multiple races on Saturday.

[alfacors]

Plenty of guys giving it some at Easter at the FOSC meet in their Group A and C cars (and it was FANTASTIC)

[B24]

+1

This will be one of the greatest races/events in Australia.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by B24

+1

This will be one of the greatest races/events in Australia.

Better than the supercars "commodore fest" that's for sure.

[David Towe]

I was going to save my money and not enter, but it's looking like being bigger than Ben Hur so I'll have to go.
If anyone thinks we'll be a pretend race category, ask Moxo what some of the passing was like going over Skyline at FOSC this year, we're racers and want to beat the car in front!

[stmookeyj033]

Don't worry about Cup Cars racing in this and their series yet, some are still waiting to see if CC will get off the ground. Not because of finances but because of entries....

[alfacors]

Good to see you up there David!

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by David Towe

I was going to save my money and not enter, but it's looking like being bigger than Ben Hur so I'll have to go.
If anyone thinks we'll be a pretend race category, ask Moxo what some of the passing was like going over Skyline at FOSC this year, we're racers and want to beat the car in front!

Not a pretend category, just one which was very money consuming at the time, with oodles of fiddling to improve the beasts, with dozens of serious technical people around when the cars ran originally, which isnt necessarily the case today...

[Alan52]

I have always thought that opening the race to GT cars would turn it into a Porsche domination much greater than the Lancer one of the past 3 years.It was always a bit fanciful to suggest that the fantastic diversity currently on display in the GT Championship series would be reflected at the front of the field in the 12 Hour particularly when the race was never going to be part of their Championship and even more so now that the race organisers have no formal relationship with the category management.The real clincher to my Porsche 12 Hour theory is the decision by the Quinn's who were 1-2 at Bathurst 2 weeks ago in an Aston and a Mosler to buy a Porsche to compete in the race.Aside from fantasy overseas entry can anyone nominate a non Porsche team that will enter the race and be capable of running at the front for 12 Hours?

[johnh875]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Not a pretend category, just one which was very money consuming at the time, with oodles of fiddling to improve the beasts, with dozens of serious technical people around when the cars ran originally, which isnt necessarily the case today...

There is a difference between the amount of development going on and how hard the cars are pushed on the track... What are you trying to suggest with this line of questioning?

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by johnh875

There is a difference between the amount of development going on and how hard the cars are pushed on the track... What are you trying to suggest with this line of questioning?

I would hate to see some very valuable motor cars damaged is all...

[David Towe]

I thought you were actually saying that V8 Taxis are easier to get the most out than Group A/C cars were in their day, my mistake then. I think most V8 Taxi teams are bigger and have more technicians than Group A/C did in their day.
I'm very worried about the possibility of carnage, very worried indeed after the events of turn 2 at MCM this year.

[Wood-duck]

With good reason I would have thought David... I dont know much about the inner workings of the Group A/C community, but am a massive fan of getting these beautiful cars out whereby joe public and appreciate them in the manner of which they where intended - on the track.

I would have thought given the number of zero's these cars now attract that some healthy respect be given by the drivers of said toys ?

[johnh875]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

I would hate to see some very valuable motor cars damaged is all...

Ok, that is not what I had inferred from your previous comments.

I have thought (as an outsider only) that in general the drivers have healthy respect for the machinery, and the level of incidents is much less than TCM or Grp N, although there have been a few big accidents eg PI start line a couple of years ago. However these are still production based cars so quite repairable as said incident demonstrated.

On the valuable front, in the UK/Europe you have anything up to Ferrari 250 GTO's being raced etc. Even a few years back Des Wall raced Pete Geoghegan's 67 Mustang at the 12HR supports, which ranks as one of my all-time motorsport highlights.

[davo.]

Talk on the street has it that Wall racing will be entering three cars. David Wall's Porsche Cup S, Paul Tresidder's Porsche 997 (challenge class) and Alan East's Evo 9. Karl Reindler has been linked to racing with David & Des in the Cup S. As well On track Motorsport will be entering three BMW's. Peter O'Donnell's BMW 335i and the two BMW 130i's from last year. Matt Kingsley has indicated he will be partnering up with Roger Lago in Lago's 997 in challenge class.

TMR has reportedly told enews that at this stage they won't be entering the race. Heaphy says that no drivers have indicated any interest in racing in the event, so at this stage they won't be racing. TMR stop being a bunch of girls, you race against Lambo's and Porsche's in Targa, B12hr 2011 could be your first road race that is actually challenging to race in. Besides B12hr 2010, when you had bad luck you have driven away with every race. Just look at the EC 6 hr and AMC Championship this year

[rich07]

They might not be the outright class anymore but I can't see why some people arent tempted to go and stick it to the GT guys by going for a strong outright result, happened at the Bathurst 24hr (I know it was twice as long).

[alfacors]

Alan also mentioned that the GT cars are lapping 15-20secs a lap faster. So any hope of a surprise result would be very remote. Hard to sell to your sponsors that you've gone from outright contention to topping the 3rd or 4th best class in the event....?

There will be a media release about Roger's effort for B12 coming soon, along with the announcement of his 3rd driver (a former gun in the Cup ). They will be a strong challenger for Class B honours IMHO.