2012 Bathurst 12 Hour - 24-26 February

[ff s conscience]

Originally Posted by Sheep Stations

Matt Griffin, I knew it sounded German-ish.

Geez, why did Cam McConville sign with your lot. Much easier hatin' blokes you don't like.

Normal delusional service resumed I see.

Griffin... really German, well, it has a G in it...

Don't hate us, race us... if you're man enough.

[Sheep Stations]

Originally Posted by ff s conscience

Normal delusional service resumed I see.

Griffin... really German, well, it has a G in it...

Don't hate us, race us... if you're man enough.

Err, I was being facetious about Griffins nationality. Just have difficulty like you in saying I was wro.., I was wro...I was partially mistaken.

[Belly13]

Originally Posted by KSM86

Speedlover from belgium are coming over with one apprently

I'll believe that when I see it...

[Morris Dancer]

Originally Posted by KSM86

Its a shame, i was really hoping that Quinn would enter his porsche and have baird with long and maybe westbrook as drivers. What a team that would be!!

Don't hold your breath waiting for the Quinns to drive in the 2012 12-hour. Now that they own the rights to the Australian GT Championship, they're effectively competitors of the 12-hour.

I just hope the international teams that visited this year's Supercheap 1000 aren't expecting the same sized crowd - or any crowd at all - to turn up at the 12-hour.

If the organisers had half a clue they'd follow the example of the Sebring 12-hour and run the race on Saturday. Then it could start at a civilised hour (eg. 10am), finish in darkness, and still give everyone a chance to return home for work on Monday.

PS. Why is this thread in 'Australasian Touring Cars'? It's a GT race!

[chavez]

Originally Posted by Morris Dancer

PS. Why is this thread in 'Australasian Touring Cars'? It's a GT race!

mmmmmmmm......what does the "T" stand for in "GT".......

Perhaps one day when the GT guys realise all this infighting never helps anyone and the best way to attract the punter is to ensure good sized grids with the best cars in the country, not sitting in garages, it might become popular enough to warrant its own forum.

To run a 12 hour race for GT cars at Bathurst with the many of the best local cars sitting at home is a shame.

[porsche91722]

Originally Posted by Morris Dancer

............If the organisers had half a clue they'd follow the example of the Sebring 12-hour and run the race on Saturday. Then it could start at a civilised hour (eg. 10am), finish in darkness, and still give everyone a chance to return home for work on Monday.........

Unlike the rest of your post, that actually makes a lot of sense.

Originally Posted by chavez

..........Perhaps one day when the GT guys realise all this infighting never helps anyone ............
To run a 12 hour race for GT cars at Bathurst with the many of the best local cars sitting at home is a shame.

Gotta agree. I'm a bit disappointed that there won't be a larger number of Porsches (and others) showing up at the 2012 race. Hopefully, there could be a few late entries.
Quinn should kiss and make up with the B12 crowd and maybe even have his circus on the support for the 12 hour. After all, most of the punters who are in Adelaide the following week at the V8SC event will be taking the opportunity to do other things (merchandising, eating, drinking, perving ) when the Aus GT guys are out on track.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Morris Dancer

Don't hold your breath waiting for the Quinns to drive in the 2012 12-hour. Now that they own the rights to the Australian GT Championship, they're effectively competitors of the 12-hour.

Obviously the closeness of both dates is not ideal for 2012 but I don't see why 12 hour is a competitor of the GT series.

[nafe!]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Obviously the closeness of both dates is not ideal for 2012 but I don't see why 12 hour is a competitor of the GT series.

Agreed, the date clash and last years experience with the promoter is the reason why tony isnt attending.

In the future all effort should be made to achieve a date that gives at least a few weeks post or prior the clipsal event for teams to attend both events.

[Oldtony]

The Date was put back to fit bringing cometitors in after the 24hr Dubai.
Alter it to suit one and it affects the other.
Choice is overseas or local entries with the shift forward of Clipsal because they are not going to the Gulf.
Really the choice is developing GT in its own right or being a support event for V8SC.

[Morris Dancer]

Originally Posted by chavez

mmmmmmmm......what does the "T" stand for in "GT".......

Perhaps one day when the GT guys realise all this infighting never helps anyone and the best way to attract the punter is to ensure good sized grids with the best cars in the country, not sitting in garages, it might become popular enough to warrant its own forum.

To run a 12 hour race for GT cars at Bathurst with the many of the best local cars sitting at home is a shame.

To answer your question with a question, why does this forum have a "Sportscar and GT racing" category?

[MCWB]

Surely you'd have realised by now that the "Australasian Touring Cars" forum is a misnomer? Anything to do with motorsport in Australia gets discussed here, not just touring cars.

[Morris Dancer]

Originally Posted by porsche91722

Unlike the rest of your post, that actually makes a lot of sense.


Gotta agree. I'm a bit disappointed that there won't be a larger number of Porsches (and others) showing up at the 2012 race. Hopefully, there could be a few late entries.
Quinn should kiss and make up with the B12 crowd and maybe even have his circus on the support for the 12 hour. After all, most of the punters who are in Adelaide the following week at the V8SC event will be taking the opportunity to do other things (merchandising, eating, drinking, perving ) when the Aus GT guys are out on track.

There's no need to resort to personal insults, and your derisory comments about the AGTC suggest a hidden agenda, but unlike some people I won't run crying to the moderators.

The AGTC and the Bathurst 12-hour promoters are commercial competitors, so what incentive is there for them to "kiss and make up"?

Sure it would be great to have a proper endurance round in the AGTC, but presumably it isn't commercially viable.

The AGTC teams are free to enter the 12-hour, so the modest entry list suggests that many of them are voting with their feet for their own reasons.

[Morris Dancer]

Originally Posted by MCWB

Surely you'd have realised by now that the "Australasian Touring Cars" forum is a misnomer? Anything to do with motorsport in Australia gets discussed here, not just touring cars.

How silly of me to take the forum categories on face value. Is it OK for me to start an openwheeler thread here too?

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Morris Dancer

The AGTC and the Bathurst 12-hour promoters are commercial competitors, so what incentive is there for them to "kiss and make up"?

I would think a healthy GT series makes for a stronger Bathurst 12 hour and vice versa.

Originally Posted by Morris Dancer

Sure it would be great to have a proper endurance round in the AGTC, but presumably it isn't commercially viable.

There have been the addition of 1 hour races for 2012 however with the existance of the 12 hour event, there is no need for any long endurance races in the championship.

Originally Posted by Morris Dancer

The AGTC teams are free to enter the 12-hour, so the modest entry list suggests that many of them are voting with their feet for their own reasons.

They are free to enter and I believe numbers are up in the GT classes for the 2012 event over 2011.

[R4z3rw33n]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

I would think a healthy GT series makes for a stronger Bathurst 12 hour and vice versa.

That's likely true. Despite being competing entities, their complete lack of collaborative will and cooperation has (and will) detract from both events - the now evident result being a loss of local entries for each event.

The fact that both operate under a different ethos and serve different interests definitely complicates matters.
The 12 Hour organisers have an obligation to provide a commercially successful, independent event (albeit with local governmental support).

AustralianGT isn't (seemingly) operated with commercial success as its first and foremost priority (viability isn't to be confused with success).
In addition, it's the established local platform for such machinery, and its existence is subsidised by far deeper hip-pockets.

As it concerns the 12 Hour, the long and short of this is, AustralianGT (as a business entity) can afford to assume greater risk.
Someone has likely weighed up the potential loss of local entries as a result of enacting a schedule conflict between the 12 Hour/Clipsal, and decided the net loss of competitors is reasonable.

It's an unfortunate reality. As it turns out, certain people enjoy ****ing on another's parade.

[alfacors]

B12 also contains Production cars and Invitational Touring Cars. Should they be discussed in the Sportscar forum with the GT competitors? Or maybe some commonsense should prevail....?

[bluesport]

Has anybody considered that Tony Quinn and Aust GT are too closely linked to supercars as a support category, and that supercars may feel slightly threatened by the growth of the B12hr, hence be leaning on Quinn not to support that race. I certainly would prefer a form of GT racing with all it's various marques to become Australia's premier category.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Has anybody considered that Tony Quinn and Aust GT are too closely linked to supercars as a support category, and that supercars may feel slightly threatened by the growth of the B12hr, hence be leaning on Quinn not to support that race. I certainly would prefer a form of GT racing with all it's various marques to become Australia's premier category.

That's hilarious - Tony Quinn is and has always been his own man. If it suited his category to take part in the 12 hour, they'd do it. I know that many like their conspiracy theories but you're taking the whole Big Brother idea a bit too far there I think.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Tourer

That's hilarious - Tony Quinn is and has always been his own man. If it suited his category to take part in the 12 hour, they'd do it. I know that many like their conspiracy theories but you're taking the whole Big Brother idea a bit too far there I think.

OK, it was just a thought.........I know that he sponsors supercars and it seems strange that Aust GT is going to miss the biggest GT event of the year here in Oz (at Bathurst no less) because of a few laps at Clipsal where they are a minor billing.........that IS hilarious, they must be mental!!!

[Tourer]

I think that it's more to do with commitments probably made to a grid size for Clipsal & the difficulty in turning cars around very quickly after a 12 hour race for semi-pro teams, the high cost of doing a 12 hour race on top of a season's racing and lastly some dissatisfaction with the way the driver seeding rules were run at The 12 hour last year.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Tourer

I think that it's more to do with commitments probably made to a grid size for Clipsal & the difficulty in turning cars around very quickly after a 12 hour race for semi-pro teams, the high cost of doing a 12 hour race on top of a season's racing and lastly some dissatisfaction with the way the driver seeding rules were run at The 12 hour last year.

OK, fair enough........bloody shame though IMO........rather see them ditch Clipsal.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by bluesport

OK, fair enough........bloody shame though IMO........rather see them ditch Clipsal.

No argument from me on that score.

Hopefully in future years they'll feel more like taking part.

[racer69]

Originally Posted by Morris Dancer

The AGTC and the Bathurst 12-hour promoters are commercial competitors, so what incentive is there for them to "kiss and make up"?

Prior to 1997, the ATCC was a completely seperate entity, as far as organisation was concerned, to the Bathurst 1000. In your definition, they were 'commercial competitors'. You didn't see any of this rubbish going on though.

A 12hr race for GT cars at Bathurst is a big deal, and any lack of support for the 12hr from local GT teams does reflect poorly on GT racing in Australia as a whole, irrespective of whether AGT management is involved or not.

I don't see how the 12hr can survive for any lengthy period of time without the support of local competitors.

Originally Posted by Morris Dancer

Is it OK for me to start an openwheeler thread here too?

Been done before, plenty of times

[Oldtony]

Originally Posted by racer69

A 12hr race for GT cars at Bathurst is a big deal, and any lack of support for the 12hr from local GT teams does reflect poorly on GT racing in Australia as a whole, irrespective of whether AGT management is involved or not.

I don't see how the 12hr can survive for any lengthy period of time without the support of local competitors.

True MD!
But it could also be said that there is no hope of GT developing beyond a niche support category without the Bathurst 12hr.
The Series Prod group didn't get on board when given the opportunity and look where that has got them!

[jd yort]

Originally Posted by Morris Dancer

There's no need to resort to personal insults.

Ummm, can you please point to the personal insult? He attacked the post, not the poster.

(If you interpret that as an insult maybe you are a little sensitive and best staying off forums period)