2014 WTCC Race of Morocco - Marrakech

[Moneyseeker]

Who on earth came up with a calendar that had the 2nd race a week after they raced in Marrakech where there is always a lot of car damage in the first season of new regs and brand new cars..

[porsche962fan]

^

Fools In Action

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

^

Fools In Action

it's the promoter (eurosport)that decides the calendar not FiA. Same as f1, bernie sets the calendar not fia.

[Andrew Abbott]

Originally Posted by adamcas

race organisation and professionalism WHAT A SHAMBLES

I really don't understand what this comment is based upon? The only downer as far as I see it is the calendar, placing Morocco one week before Paul Ricard.

Visit the WTCC paddock and it has a much bigger air of professionalism about it. Especially when you compare it to the likes of the BTCC.

Citroën are also approaching the championship with a very sensible and professional outlook. It's nice to see.

[Metzo]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

problem is there is no market for this cars to dump to, BTCC has their own rules, STCC has theier Solution F, ADAC Procar has their own rules now , asian chamionship have their own ones , they are way to expensive for club racing and other inferior classes


so wo exactly will buy this things outside of WTCC???

who says they have to leave wtcc? look how long teams have been using the bmws and seats.

it wouldnt surprise me if etcc will allow tc1 cars in 3-4 years when there are more cars built and the current ones get a lot cheaper.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Metzo

who says they have to leave wtcc? look how long teams have been using the bmws and seats.

.

it's something called cash flow

BMW in particular sold a lot of S2000 cars in other series like STCC, BTCC etc and if they didn't the WTCC privateers did so they can buy new ones , to lesser extent SEAT

however now that's impossible it will be much much harder for the cash flow

[Metzo]

how is it impossible? what if new teams join wtcc in the next few years and buy the current cars?

[PorscheFanNo1]

Originally Posted by Metzo

who says they have to leave wtcc? look how long teams have been using the bmws and seats.

it wouldnt surprise me if etcc will allow tc1 cars in 3-4 years when there are more cars built and the current ones get a lot cheaper.

^^ My point exactly. Hoping the current teams/manufacturers stay in WTCC and one or two more will join in the next 3-4 years at the same time as more independents join to use old cars, as well as ETCC following with TC1. I.E picking up momentum.

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

it's something called cash flow



BMW in particular sold a lot of S2000 cars in other series like STCC, BTCC etc and if they didn't the WTCC privateers did so they can buy new ones , to lesser extent SEAT



however now that's impossible it will be much much harder for the cash flow

Sorry, but that makes no sense at all. If ROAL buys a new Chevy in two years and a privateer buys their old one, doesn't the exact same thing happen as what happened before? With less local championships adopting the rules it won't be as easy, but far from impossible.

[nobster]

Originally Posted by PorscheFanNo1

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say its 100% Coronels fault, based on the simple fact that its written in the rules that you always have to leave your competitor racing space. Coronel ran him to the wall and didnt leave him any space. Just cause you're ahead doesnt give you the right to behave however you want.

On a different note, I actually like the looks of the cars, especially the Honda's, and eventho there were only 10 cars still racing in race 2 it was still entertaining to watch them go around. The cars somehow looks more spectaular and are nicer to watch then the normal S2000 cars that always looks slow and clumbsy. I'm hoping WTCC and these new regs can pick up momentum the next 2-3 years, eventough the costs right now for those machines are not really in their favour.

Thank god you are not one of the race stewards then....
That Bananas fellow clearly pushed Coronel in the wall and with an illegal, underweight car that was!

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

Sorry, but that makes no sense at all. If ROAL buys a new Chevy in two years and a privateer buys their old one, doesn't the exact same thing happen as what happened before? With less local championships adopting the rules it won't be as easy, but far from impossible.

then why do you think BMW sports director Dr. Mario Theissen moaned when BTCC introduced NGTC rules if BMW had no plans to enter as works entry ?


simply because they could not sell their S2000 E90 anymore to privateers there , if you remember there were quite a number of them, 3 WSR, 3 to Motorbase, at least , one E46 to geoff Steel Racing


if ROAL buys a Chevy their only hope is to sell it to other privateer in WTCC BUT there is no more customer pool say from BTCC or STCC or any other championship to sell it on to so may end up stuck with that car

if RML brings out a new improved model or they want to switch from other producer like Honda Citroen for ROAL it would be much harder to finance if they can't get some cash for their old car simple as that


simple economics of scale

[Bramzel]

And how is that different from all the other championships out there running unique regulations?

[porsche962fan]

it's different cos the TC1 cars are much more expensive and privateers have no chance building their own cars and being reasonably successful, privateers need big budget and are totally dependent on the manufacturers

in economoc terms I think it's called "captive customer"

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

it's different cos the TC1 cars are much more expensive and privateers have no chance building their own cars and being reasonably successful, privateers need big budget and are totally dependent on the manufacturers

in economoc terms I think it's called "captive customer"

Privateers never had a chance to develop a succesfull car under S2000 regulations either. All succesfull S2000 cars were developed by factories, none of the privately developed cars really made an impact. Yet RML managed to build a competative TC1 car without any support from Chevrolet. And on the subject of privateers: ROAL, Campos, Proteam and Zengo succesfully managed to set up privateer teams already in the first season of the new rule-set. NIKA already has its plans for 2015 in place, as customer of Honda just like other teams were customer of BMW and Seat in the past.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

Privateers never had a chance to develop a succesfull car under S2000 regulations either. All succesfull S2000 cars were developed by factories, none of the privately developed cars really made an impact.

hence why many championships ditched them and do their own or never adopted them to start with

essentially having S2000 on steroids can't help matters now that you have extra costs for

Yet RML managed to build a competative TC1 car without any support from Chevrolet. And on the subject of privateers: ROAL, Campos, Proteam and Zengo succesfully managed to set up privateer teams already in the first season of the new rule-set. NIKA already has its plans for 2015 in place, as customer of Honda just like other teams were customer of BMW and Seat in the past.

sorry but RML isn't that competitive, no chance against the Citroens and JAS didn't do they should have with Honda, we'll see how they do

as for Lada they're more or less a joke the base car is rather terrible to start with

[FIRE]

I like the cars (except rear wing, looks cheap).

For Honda, RML Chevy and LADA the season started to soon.
But you can't blame Citroen for building a fast car.

With Marrakech being a street course it was stupid to have only 1 week between the first two races.

[Metzo]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

then why do you think BMW sports director Dr. Mario Theissen moaned when BTCC introduced NGTC rules if BMW had no plans to enter as works entry ?


simply because they could not sell their S2000 E90 anymore to privateers there , if you remember there were quite a number of them, 3 WSR, 3 to Motorbase, at least , one E46 to geoff Steel Racing

yeah thats how it worked for bmw, but what about other manufacturers like vauxhall? how many of the s2000 vectras were sold outside of the btcc?

[Canuck59NHL]

Here are some pictures from my travel in Marrakech:

https://plus.google.com/photos/10799...225?banner=pwa

[Metzo]

nice pics