[LM24 Race] Le Mans 2023 Race Thread

[The Fat Clerk]

Got to agree about the maintenance people from the Ring, they really are the speediest around.

[veeten]

Originally Posted by The Fat Clerk

Got to agree about the maintenance people from the Ring, they really are the speediest around.

Of course, the reason for this is that the Nordschlife, when not used for racing, is used on a daily basis by the general Public to do single pass runs or time attack. And with that, there are multiple accidents that range from a simple shunt to an outright barrel-roll. The repair crews have lots of experience due to constant activity, whereas the areas for Le Mans is only used for one month.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

I also couldn't work out which situations would be likely to get a safety car and which would be covered by slow zones - I'm not sure what the criteria are for each?

This is a really good observation, and I don't know the answer either! Sometimes a car spins and it is a local yellow, but then maybe there is too much debris on track so they call slow zone, but still not sure what elevates it to a safety car instead of a full course yellow? They have loads of options to neutralize the race in the name of safety, and maybe it is just us on the internet who want to know the thought process!

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by Matador

As an aside, can you imagine what would have been without tyre warmers?

Well, I dont think that several laps behind the SC helps to keep the tires within the ideal temps range. A driver reported that when the green was, at last, turned on, it could take a full lap to reach the race temp.

[veeten]

If the car is off track, but still able to move, then it's a local yellow/slow zone while they assist the car back on the track. If the car is immobile, FCY to remove it. If there is substancial damage to the area, such as guardrail damage/dislodging, then FCY to fix said area and re-establish the running order before said incident happened.

Understanding the rules makes it easier to tell the difference in situations.

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by veeten

Understanding the rules makes it easier to tell the difference in situations.

No doubt about this. But it seemed that some MP's and the RC have been puzzled sometimes. Understandable given the number of incidents/accidents.

[RL17]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

It's very noticable how much the race was enjoyed by those who were there. I was completely sold on Le Mans after my first visit in 1986, but as far as I'm concerned, this event was pretty epic and the race lived up to the Centenary billing. A magical (if very hot!) experience. If you haven't been, next year surely has to be the year....

Great race - only a few spots of rain for us but great to see so many cars and manufacturers in the mix. Phone was rubbish and pretty busy WE so just catching up.

Cadillacs were pretty impressive especially after Thursday fire and a couple of shunts. Peugeot had their time in sun/rain til gone 3am and great to see racing without tyre use completely switching results in last hour or so.

The unavailable block on front right corner of T23 had quite a few empty seats at start and was only 25 to 33% full for last 90 mins or so.

Toilet queues pretty bad - removal of old outdoor one (5O% of capacity) a shocker.

Didn’t expect the free ferry across the Seine today after a minor diversion for fuel.

Roads inside circuit pretty good - got out and back from BSJ Porsche curves to Super U change Thursday, Friday and Saturday (20 min delay on dual carriageway and area near arena).

BSJ security at entrance quicker so wasn’t as bad getting in there from Arnage direction.

Overall 9/10 for organisation and event.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by veeten

If the car is off track, but still able to move, then it's a local yellow/slow zone while they assist the car back on the track. If the car is immobile, FCY to remove it. If there is substancial damage to the area, such as guardrail damage/dislodging, then FCY to fix said area and re-establish the running order before said incident happened.

Understanding the rules makes it easier to tell the difference in situations.

Except that wasn't consistent this weekend, and the barrier repairs were under SC

[RL17]

Agree it was inconsistent- long barrier repairs like at first Mulsanne chicane a year or two back would be a nightmare under FCY.

First hour of race is main spectacle on TV around the world - not good.

SC makes it very dull and quiet - seemed to go on for 50 mins or so whilst at Indianapolis from 12.30am. Especially when there’s a high attrition rate. Takes so long to catchup when stragglers let go. Any car in between SC and last Hypercar on same lap should just be made to run through a closed pit and join on back - maybe give them a lap for a virtual free pitstop and emergency pitstops only for Hypercar.

[PascaLM]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Except that wasn't consistent this weekend, and the barrier repairs were under SC

it seems that most of repairs were done with slow-zone conditions, it was the case with the crash of the Porsche Proton #88 at Indianapolis. One of the biggest accident I saw from track side in 39 years. The replacement of the rails were done quickly. The SZ was justified by the duration of the entire operation.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by The Fat Clerk

I found the new Safety Car rules farcical, the whole thing took far to long to get all the cars where they wanted them and ruined the race for me.

The new SC rulea added time, but the majority of the time was dealing with the incident. It would be considered too long even without the new rules.

Originally Posted by Matador

As an aside, can you imagine what would have been without tyre warmers?

probably was a good thing.
I think this eradicated a lot of Toyotas advantage. They’d put effort into this.

Originally Posted by Matador

Or even the brake balance issues specifically? I don't recall them ever actually running that heavy prior to here.

The ran at 1071kg for a race last year and 1070kg for others, including Le Mans.

https://tentenths.com/forum/showthre...24#post4155324

[Adam43]

The beeb has an article on Le Mans. Covers a lot of ground.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/motorsport/65874444

[Adam43]

The battle to win Le Mans!

To really tell the battle for the win other cars could be included, but I've kept it simple and just those that finished on the podium. There is a second chart which is just the Top 2.

SC and FCY are shown. Slow zone laps are not. A spike up the car pitted before the leader, a spike down and it was after.

Spikes can be pitstops if they don't pit on the same lap. If you don't go back to the same gap from before the pitstop you gained or lost time in the stop sequence. You see this with the last stop for the Ferrari.

Generally the Toyota was losing out to the Ferrari through a stint. Except notably in the last Hartley stint.

After the FCY at 129 the Cadillac was losing about 1.8s/lap. Some of that was the top up of oil, but there was a steady drop off.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Adam43

The new SC rulea added time, but the majority of the time was dealing with the incident. It would be considered too long even without the new rules.

probably was a good thing.
I think this eradicated a lot of Toyotas advantage. They’d put effort into this.

The ran at 1071kg for a race last year and 1070kg for others, including Le Mans.

https://tentenths.com/forum/showthre...24#post4155324

So those extra 9kg was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back?

[Steve McQ]

That graph is really hard for Hirakawa. Anytime he gets in the car, the gap inclination is really, really steeper than his other teammates.

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by The Fat Clerk

I found the new Safety Car rules farcical, the whole thing took far to long to get all the cars where they wanted them and ruined the race for me.

Its seems that many issues have arisen not under SC but with a succession of slow zones. When cars are trapped in "the box" and the RC gives order to cancell the said zone the other cars can come into the zone flat out when others still doing 80.

And when there's a succession of SZ's with so many cars on the track and a long track it seems to me rather difficult to resolve. Unless it's up to any chef de poste to say to the RC "no, not now".

Dont get me wrong, I'm not sayin' that SZ's are not a good alternative to SC just wondering how it's possible to handle this, at least at LM track.

[Truckosaurus]

In an ideal world you would have progressive slow zones where you slow down in steps rather than going from flat out to a crawl, but that is probably hard to implement in practice.

That would also allow you to remove the SlowZone in stages (from the middle out)
as well.

[PhilipR]

Honestly we have had this system of SZ since 2106 I think and there was never a issue until twice in this race.

Also what Kobayashi is referring to is a system like in 2015 where SZs were per corner, and that led to the Audi 8 crash when loads of cars were slowing at different rates at the end of the rundown to Indianapolis. I think this system where the SZ stars after a natural slow down for a corner is safest for everybody. Just some drivers need to pay attention and their teams to keep them informed.

Also maybe do not implement SZs whilst cars are going through the breaking point , maybe wait for that one to be cleared first

[v8supes]

Well Well Well....I know this is par for the course and in post race scrutineering the officials can ask to see any parts but it doesn't look great for Inter Europol.... Surprised they didn't take any from GTE AM cars.

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...-class-winner/

[broadrun96]

It appears the desire to not leave a hundredth on the table and what appears to be VERY poor wording on the in car screen lead to a couple of the collisions. It seems like there is a yellow waved before the SZ area so no passing but that wasn't clear from a few comments. If it is true there is a yellow before the SZ and drivers were trying to drive hard to the SZ line ignoring the yellow you can't pass than is a rule change needed? Or is it more the lack of respect of other cars existence on track and ****-poor team communication to driver of when you must slow. It did seem like more than once cars were steaming in to a slow zone like a GP in to the pits. To me that's why you can't have too much warning cause drivers are gonna go the last mm before slowing even if they don't need to push it that hard.

[JT240Z]

Originally Posted by v8supes

Well Well Well....I know this is par for the course and in post race scrutineering the officials can ask to see any parts but it doesn't look great for Inter Europol.... Surprised they didn't take any from GTE AM cars.

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...-class-winner/

What could be the outcome? If parts are found non-compliant, could they overturn the race results? That would be a real downer for an otherwise great race.

[v8supes]

Originally Posted by JT240Z

What could be the outcome? If parts are found non-compliant, could they overturn the race results? That would be a real downer for an otherwise great race.

Yeah i think they will apply penalties if there are irregularities found. Certainly this is what happened to the Ben Keating Ford GT in 2019 and the G Drive LMP2 winner in 2018. https://www.motorsport.com/lemans/ne...s-win/4476619/

[Gerard C]

If they've been stripping down the car for hours they must have an idea about what they're looking at. Its a one make series and often the best scrutineer is your pit neigbhour. Or ex-wife or a former mechanic you've fired!

[chernaudi]

I can see the ACO wanting to take stuff from the highest finishing entry of each Hypercar, but why for LMP2, which is a defacto spec class?

[Gerard C]

Why? Because rules are rules and cheating in any category is not permitted. And its the LMP2 winner. But having a look at who was second and third could give you an idea. From the link only was has been stripped down…