USCC (leave your axe outside)

[ACFlinn]

Originally Posted by jeast

You have a funny understanding of facts since it is basically the same production based motor that ran last year.

Actually, it's not.

You should do some research.

Andy Flinn

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Originally Posted by ACFlinn

Seventy percent of the Ford Ecoboost DP engine is production-based. But don't let facts get in the way.

Andy Flinn

Right, So then if That Eco bust engine is and runs anything like the production engine it'll end up scattering it's connecting rods, leaving an oil streak across the tri oval,and dropping turbos all while using more fuel than a v8.

I Just don't under stand why ford is still trying to promote a PICK UP TRUCK engine in a race car after it already has much negative feedback and lawsuits against it, and it's not even selling in sedans or in those crossover things.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Lanky Turtle

New video from Ford showing the engine on the dyno and also showing the rear bodywork.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jExV...ature=youtu.be

No diffuser, no double rear wing. So basically just a slight rework on the shape of the car.

[Bicknell55]

Originally Posted by TF110

No diffuser, no double rear wing. So basically just a slight rework on the shape of the car.

I don't believe the diffuser and other 2014 changes are released yet, thus why you don't see them on the car.

[JacobP]

Originally Posted by Lagunaseca_4life

Right, So then if That Eco bust engine is and runs anything like the production engine it'll end up scattering it's connecting rods, leaving an oil streak across the tri oval,and dropping turbos all while using more fuel than a v8.

I Just don't under stand why ford is still trying to promote a PICK UP TRUCK engine in a race car after it already has much negative feedback and lawsuits against it, and it's not even selling in sedans or in those crossover things.

It's not a truck-only engine. The V6 Ecoboost started its life as the Taurus SHO engine. It's based on a V6 Cyclone engine that was used in Fusion and Taurus since 2007 or so. Besides, Ford is really trying to promote the Ecoboost name in general, and ecoboost is now almost in everything in Ford and Lincoln models.

Within just a few hours of hard racing, the engine components can see the wear and tear that's worse than after 100K miles of driving. That's why motorsport is a great testing lab for new stuff. Likewise, even though I believe that a tube-frame Mazda6 sedan does not belong is sports car racing, I am kind of willing to tolerate it if it helps to make production cars better.

[seanyb505]

Originally Posted by ACFlinn

What specific model from the Audi or Toyota lines do the WEC Audi, Toyota or Rebellion LMP1's resemble?

No ALMS LMP1 or LMP2 resembles anything in a production showroom.

Andy Flinn

Any VAG gasoline engine with FSI. Tail lights from R10 and Q7. LED Headlights across the Audi line.

Why would you even ask about Rebellion? It isn't made by a mass producer auto manufacturer. Toyota non production race engine? Yes. Lola Chassis? Yes.

The whole point of this kind of racing is the tech transfer, and that doesn't happen overnight. If you expect Toyota to show up with something that legitimately competes for overall wins and have that exact drivetrain in this model year's Prius you have a slight misunderstanding of what's going on.

If engineers working in LMP didn't feed information back to the rest of the company, you would not see manufacturer P1s. Not sure I can say the same for past years of DP, LMPC, etc.

[Maelochs]

DPs are dinosaurs and P1s are cutting-edge. Some people hate DPs for that. some love them despite that. Some just accept things as they are and on their own terms.

How much longer do we need to fight pointlessly over this stuff?

In a discussion among open-minded people, one would hope each side would present information and/or points of view unknown to the others, and that all involved parties would evaluate the new information and opinions in an a unbiased fashion and would be totally willing to follow the facts and thoughts to whatever outcoe, whether or not it was the position they started with.

Here it is pretty much you wear the "I hate DPs" colors or the "DPs are great" uniform, line up on opposite sides of the room, and chant your slogans mindlessly.

DPs and P2s,. both essentially spec classes (very little difference between chassis/bodies, very little modification allowed (even worse, the Rolex power/torque curves will be enforced, apparently)) will constitute the top class of TUSCC for at lease the next three years. Could we possibly accept that fact? Could we possibly stop repeating the same posts that we have all seen for the past several years?

All we have here is "Almost everybody else said it so now it is my turn to say it" versus "I have said this over and over."

Of course, everyone is free to post whatever. If this repetitive gainsaying gets you guys off, so be it. I just want to point out that there are options, like ignoring repetitive posts and even introducing new topics.

[David Land]

With the tunnels and double rear wings added to the DP's will the cars begin to resemble this?

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Of course, everyone is free to post whatever. If this repetitive gainsaying gets you guys off, so be it. I just want to point out that there are options, like ignoring repetitive posts and even introducing new topics.

As a moderator, I'm not sure that I should sanction such sensible heresy........ ;

[Maelochs]

I am pretty excited to see what the new DPs can do. They won't look much different but they should corner a lot faster. What the added horsepower will do depends on where they add it---will the new cars have more top end or more grunt out of the corners? How will they perform in traffic against serious P2 competition?

Sure, things could turn out terrible, requiring a rebalancing after every race, which would make the season almost pointless except as a test ... but it could also be a lot of fun.

[jasonjessica09]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

I am pretty excited to see what the new DPs can do. They won't look much different but they should corner a lot faster. What the added horsepower will do depends on where they add it---will the new cars have more top end or more grunt out of the corners? How will they perform in traffic against serious P2 competition?

Sure, things could turn out terrible, requiring a rebalancing after every race, which would make the season almost pointless except as a test ... but it could also be a lot of fun.

I dont forsee a large LMP2 full time grid in 2014. Extreme Speed will be there but I don't they are as good as any of the LMP2 WEC cars. 8Start might have one but that is it. L5 is questionable to run LMP2 in TUSCC right?

[David Land]

Originally Posted by jasonjessica09

The LMPC class works like this. It is a meaningless class for the spectators but it is popular amongst the competitors so it won't go away. An analogy to this is Obamacare. The everyday citizen in the USA hates it but the politicians like it so they are fighting to keep against what the people want.

Its popular with rich Venezuelans, Scott Tucker, and Oreca.

PC had its place in post-economic crash ALMS, but in a seemingly healthy TUSCC, it needs to go away.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by David Land

With the tunnels and double rear wings added to the DP's will the cars begin to resemble this?

I don't think that is how the rear wing will look. The current DP wing is one piece, while the current lmp wing is 2, which allows for more adjustments and changes downforce and drag. You might be able to tell from the image here: http://imgur.com/iJafHz0
The wing proposed for DP's will look like the LMP solution, not that GTP Porsche.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by David Land

Its popular with rich Venezuelans, Scott Tucker, and Oreca.

Hmm, the facts would seem to dispute the implication of that statement.

http://www.alms.com/standings/team






L.P.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by joeb

I don't think that is how the rear wing will look. The current DP wing is one piece, while the current lmp wing is 2, which allows for more adjustments and changes downforce and drag. You might be able to tell from the image here: http://imgur.com/iJafHz0
The wing proposed for DP's will look like the LMP solution, not that GTP Porsche.

They actually may have to go to a wing like the double plane depending on how much will be allowed with body and undertray modifications, in order to get the full effect of the diffuser. The dual plane wing might be lower/more effective cost then heavy profile changes to the bodywork.

[David Land]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Hmm, the facts would seem to dispute the implication of that statement.

http://www.alms.com/standings/team






L.P.

We will see what the PC entry looks like next year. How about that.

Anyway...

So essentially the DP's will now have LMP style wings with higher endfences rather than the GTP style wings?

That is a shame, that Ford DP they just rolled out would look really good with that GTP wing on it!

[BullMan]

In Dagys's article about Dragonspeed at Daytona, the last line says something to the effect that Scot Elkins told Elton Julian that they wouldn't be messing with LMPC. Elkins just said on Twitter that he "doesn't make promises like that." They mess with LMPC too much and they're in the way of the GTE cars. Here we go...

[jasonjessica09]

LMPC is a spec pro am class. Even though its prototype its ok for them to be as fast or slower than the GTLM cars I think. Back in the early 1990's, GTS was faster or equal to Camel Lights, nobody complained there. Elkins looks like is hinting that indeed LMPC could be slowed possibly. I think if IMSA decreased the restrictor by 10 mm that would put the Oreca FLM"s back on par to how LMPC is in the ELMS anyway I think?

[jasonjessica09]

Duncan Ende says on his twitter "better slow down the GTLM cars then". Ha Ha! what rubbish. You are an LMPC driver sir, worry about beating the other LMPC cars and don't hit the side of the GT car while they pass you next year!

[PointDSM]

Originally Posted by jasonjessica09

Duncan Ende says on his twitter "better slow down the GTLM cars then". Ha Ha! what rubbish. You are an LMPC driver sir, worry about beating the other LMPC cars and don't hit the side of the GT car while they pass you next year!

This may be the first post I agree with you on! While I would actually grab a spot and watch a LMPC/IMSA Lites race, having LMPC be slower than GTLM would actually make sense. Make them so cheap that they can go further on fuel and tires so they finish ahead, but slower that GTLM can get past them easily.

[jeast]

Originally Posted by PointDSM

This may be the first post I agree with you on! While I would actually grab a spot and watch a LMPC/IMSA Lites race, having LMPC be slower than GTLM would actually make sense. Make them so cheap that they can go further on fuel and tires so they finish ahead, but slower that GTLM can get past them easily.

I don't see why they have to finish a head of GTLM.. I think the pro classes should be first and have the pro am behind them. P,GTLM,LMPC,GTD.

[JacobP]

Why should there be a spec class in the main race anyways? No one comes to a sports car race to watch spec cars. Porsche cup races have established themselves as a popular support race for the main events. Perhaps one of those Porsche cup races can be combined with LMPC cars to create a more exciting support race?

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Lmpc doesn't bother me, but slowing them is rediculous. We saw several times lmpc splitting the gt leaders, at cota a PC put Edwards in the bmw at a disadvantage to the corvette with 30minutes left. I'm all for lmpcs but when the are slowed and get in the way of a gt battle/championship that's just not right.im willing to give tuscc a chance, but if gtlm the only non spec class is messed with to maintain the spec class' speed then there's not much hope.i also feel that the enduros should cater to the us based teams who have supported grand am and alms in the past.even if they run a one off entry or two cars with only one being full season.european teams should be the ones who need to qualify no matter who they are. if a race on U.S. Soil is important to them then commit to all of them. And also I'm not convinced we need to keep the Le Mans connection.i love Le Mans and all but which team wants/is going to Le Mans besides corvette/srt/L5? Its not neccissary, gtlm should stay for manufactures but the prototype class should keep the dp/p2 way of being, maybe lose some of the spec ness but keep the manufacture works teams away.i don't want to see manufactures bring down tuscc like it did to the alms.

[Lagunaseca_4life]

One thing too I agree that lmpc and gtc should be gone away with or lowered into a support race.they were created as grid fillers, and with a healthy gird size they will no longer be needed.i have no problem if tuscc eventually morphs into dp/p2 and gt-lm only essentially grand am v2 , as long as the old ga nonsense is dropped.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by jasonjessica09

LMPC is a spec pro am class. Even though its prototype its ok for them to be as fast or slower than the GTLM cars I think. Back in the early 1990's, GTS was faster or equal to Camel Lights, nobody complained there. Elkins looks like is hinting that indeed LMPC could be slowed possibly. I think if IMSA decreased the restrictor by 10 mm that would put the Oreca FLM"s back on par to how LMPC is in the ELMS anyway I think?

PC will not be slowed to, or behind, the GTLM pace!





L.P.