UK Formula Ford Expands in 07/random f3 discussion

Redracer77 · 16 Jan 2007, 12:18 (Ref:1816469)

It seems that UK formula ford will be run over 25 rounds in 2007. A good move in my point of view as UK Formula Ford will give a driver loads of track time and race starts for half a renault or BMW budget.

It will be interesting to see how drivers look after tyres during the weekend as the 5 triple header meetings will still have the same tyre limitation of 1 set per weekend. It will make it a little more interesting.

**bella** · 16 Jan 2007, 13:29 (Ref:1816515)

i think the budget considerations are very important in fford - it has to find a niche to "fight" fbmw and frenault. and considering the budgets for both are just going up and up then going for a bang for your buck approach is the best one.

plus by keeping most of the track time at the meeting it gives less excuses for more outside testing, in my opinion.

JohnMiller · 16 Jan 2007, 14:06 (Ref:1816574)

I think they hope to have Duratec only grids too this year which must be a step forward.

No idea if there will be a Zetec grid anywhere at all.

Redracer77 · 16 Jan 2007, 14:49 (Ref:1816612)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnMiller

I think they hope to have Duratec only grids too this year which must be a step forward.

No idea if there will be a Zetec grid anywhere at all.

I think you are wrong John, there are a number of Zetec runners already entered and why would that be a step forward by dropping zetec? Maybe Spanish F3 should drop class b as well as maybe that is a step forward.... Durectec is still for people with budgets over £80k. The zetec class allows drivers to learn the tracks and the cars and be part of the package for between £30k and £50k so a good first step.

If you had read the Formula Ford regulations then you will see that Zetec is still very much part of UK Formula Ford in 2007.

JohnMiller · 16 Jan 2007, 14:50 (Ref:1816613)

Oops, only know what I was told last week, which perhaps was wrong. If there are 25 Duratec runners though, surely all the Zetec entrants will get their own grid?

Redracer77 · 16 Jan 2007, 14:58 (Ref:1816618)

why there is never going to be more than 5 or 6 zetecs anyway. Most grids hold 32+ so plenty of space for everyone

Ian Sowman · 16 Jan 2007, 15:18 (Ref:1816639)

IF grid levels demand it, it has to be preferable to have only one class of car on the grid. That has to be the ambition.

If the combined number of Duratecs and Zetecs is more than a gridful, then an alternative solution would have to be found - be that separate grids, a slightly convoluted qualifying system or whatever.

JNWRF01 · 16 Jan 2007, 15:25 (Ref:1816645)

Can someone explain what exactly happens next year to FF chassis - I seem to remember that the cars change again for 08.... If so - seems a bit ambitious to expect people to buy chassis for 12m ...... or is there now a cheap way to convert a Zetec?

Redracer77 · 16 Jan 2007, 15:28 (Ref:1816649)

jez you can only convert on 04 onwards and it is not too expensive by all accounts and the chassis does change in 08 hence why were will not buy one. Till 08

ss_collins · 16 Jan 2007, 16:51 (Ref:1816703)

Reasons why FF is growing

Spaceframe chassis - far easier to maintain and possibly safer in the long term
Duratec engine - cheap, plentiful, reliable.
Cost - still too high for what it is - I think if you are an engineer yourself as well as a driver you could run for maybe £25,000 a year

Learning - FBMW, Fren, GP2, Euro Series, BF3, World Series etc. They are all spec series (F3 - all Dallara F30x's baiscally - unless you are german), and as a result a driver does not learn to develop a car or even to set it up. In Formula Ford you do as there are some engineering freedoms.

Rules - hopefully they should be pretty stable and allow a range of cars in the more manufacturers there are the better - perhaps there is even scope for some specials.

I've got a test lined up in a modern Formula Ford so I'll let you know what I think - but I very much doubt I will race one.

goughy · 16 Jan 2007, 21:08 (Ref:1816949)

I heard that it is highly unlikely there will be any chassis change in 2008. The change was muted to try and satisfy the FIA crash test reg's and bring the safety of the class to the same standard of BMW. Since the tests the FIA carried out on Formula Ford dismissed their theories that a tubular chassis would not meet safety standards, I now understand the FIA are considering creating a new safety regulation for tubular chassis that Ford’s could work to.

Any change to chassis is likely to be minor and not until 2009/10, where I believe items like rear crash protection boxes (likely to be a simple add on) may be introduced.

JohnMiller · 16 Jan 2007, 21:36 (Ref:1816971)

You must have spoken to the same people as me Goughy, but I was too frightened to mention any of that after the rollocking RedRacer gave me above!

elementsports · 16 Jan 2007, 22:46 (Ref:1817027)

So Red Racer, does FF in any way teach a driver Slicks & Wings! NO, Does FF teach a driver after banging around old used airfields in the UK how to drive a tech car? (oh sorry Silverstone) but look at it's back ground..
So how does FF teach a driver? Spanish F3 is value for money, a real car, with a crowd!! and F1 tracks!. also do i want to bang around a space frame car at Snett to get killed! N0.. I want to have fun in motorsport. Not get wet, upset i can not race because no marshalls have turned up..
I want to race in a country/Europe that actually loves racing, and will turn up to watch it!
Not 500 people and a puppy, at brands because its wet on race day for BTCC (sorry borring cars) and let my guests get so bored they should have asked Granny to stay at home and i will walk the dog on Sunday. You get more from it than in UK Motorsport.. And some change in your pocket..
Look out side the UK, it is hard but the WEB does show it if you look out side...

PS i can get to a DTM/Euro F3 round, travel, hotel etc cheaper than most BTCC rounds! think about that...

**bella** · 16 Jan 2007, 22:51 (Ref:1817033)

there are the words of a bitter person

i'm a firm believer in foreign motorsport. but let's look within the uk (and at uk formula ford) here. not everyone has the bothered to get on a plane to spain every time they want to watch motorsport, or even race in it.

Century · 16 Jan 2007, 23:06 (Ref:1817056)

Do any of the slicks and wings formulae allow / teach how to slipstream and overtake, NO, is there any racing in slicks and wings, NO, do slick and wings teach you any form of understanding about mechanical grip, NO. Best thing is go watch the processions in slicks and wings and leave racing to those without. Formula Ford was better value for money last year and is even better this year than the others in terms of track time per pound and the racing is first class.

Redracer77 · 16 Jan 2007, 23:35 (Ref:1817071)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnMiller

You must have spoken to the same people as me Goughy, but I was too frightened to mention any of that after the rollocking RedRacer gave me above!

lol john, wasn't having a go a such but it was a bit daft saying FF should not have the class b zetecs when your team has just entered Spanish F3 in the B class!! Championships need Class B runners sometimes to look after the drivers who can't afford to race in class A. Do you think your Spanish F3 driver you have signed would have signed for WT if he had the budget to do claas a.....no but it puts another driver on the grid who may not have been there if Class B was not set up.

The reason I know about the position of zetecs is because I run them and had spoken to BA about them earlier on this morning. They are very clearly in the plans for UK FF for 2007 but I would doubt they would be in for 2008.

Chassis issues is as Goughy pointed out but it still means there will be big design changes after 2007 due to development. But like you say most of the safety implications will be "bolt on" parts.

Redracer77 · 16 Jan 2007, 23:39 (Ref:1817073)

Quote:

Originally Posted by elementsports

So Red Racer, does FF in any way teach a driver Slicks & Wings! NO, Does FF teach a driver after banging around old used airfields in the UK how to drive a tech car? (oh sorry Silverstone) but look at it's back ground..
So how does FF teach a driver? Spanish F3 is value for money, a real car, with a crowd!! and F1 tracks!. also do i want to bang around a space frame car at Snett to get killed! N0.. I want to have fun in motorsport. Not get wet, upset i can not race because no marshalls have turned up..
I want to race in a country/Europe that actually loves racing, and will turn up to watch it!
Not 500 people and a puppy, at brands because its wet on race day for BTCC (sorry borring cars) and let my guests get so bored they should have asked Granny to stay at home and i will walk the dog on Sunday. You get more from it than in UK Motorsport.. And some change in your pocket..
Look out side the UK, it is hard but the WEB does show it if you look out side...

PS i can get to a DTM/Euro F3 round, travel, hotel etc cheaper than most BTCC rounds! think about that...

I agree with most of what you say but slicks and wings is stage 2 for a career driver. Formula Ford teaches you everything Century explained and more. You need that basic skill of car control before you play with slicks and wings. This is something that only FF can teach at this level.

If you have a FR or FBMW moving around then you will not be fast so if a driver can't learn how to handle a car on the limit how is he/she going tocope with cars such as WSR3.5 etc The answer is they will just not be as good drivers.

And dont mention Lewis Hamilton or Kimi as there are always exeptions to the rule in any business or trade

elementsports · 17 Jan 2007, 00:11 (Ref:1817085)

Thanks for the reply, but have you ever driven around Snet? if so have you ever driven around Spa? tel me what is best for a driver to learn?
I agree FF is mega but it has to come up to PR/Media presentations or fail, it comes and goes. It must stay!!! but at the drivers cost, NO! it is like UK F3 pointless to a driver...No crowds, but hey good on the CV if you come 3rd.
BMW, Ren all work, they give something for the $ paying sponsor... Tell FF to up it and they will get the proper drivers, not 2 bit clubbies.. but real F1 makers... FF must stay but Ford need to put the hands in the pockets as they have had the name on this for to long without any $$$$

elementsports · 17 Jan 2007, 00:51 (Ref:1817100)

WATCH A GO KART RACE THEN, THE SAME!!! BUT BETER, if you think you can slip in a FF which teaches people or tech then get in one.. The tech stuff starts with slick and wings, because that is how motorsport is now. Not how you would like it to be... sadly... You tell me any F1 team that puts drivers in FF to learn! hrmm 0. Tech is now in the F1 team aibilty not what we think...

runshaw · 17 Jan 2007, 02:06 (Ref:1817127)

Elementsports, it helps on this forum if you write valid points.

JohnMiller · 17 Jan 2007, 08:20 (Ref:1817227)

You misunderstood my original post RR.

At UKFF meetings I'd like to see one gridful of of Duratec cars and another of Zetecs. I think it's criminal that there isn't one strong Zetec series in the UK, when you think back to the grids they had as recently as five years ago with a full grid in UKFF, an oversubscribed grid in the fantastic Avon Junior FF and about another ten of them in Kent County.

Redracer77 · 17 Jan 2007, 09:19 (Ref:1817271)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnMiller

You misunderstood my original post RR.

At UKFF meetings I'd like to see one gridful of of Duratec cars and another of Zetecs. I think it's criminal that there isn't one strong Zetec series in the UK, when you think back to the grids they had as recently as five years ago with a full grid in UKFF, an oversubscribed grid in the fantastic Avon Junior FF and about another ten of them in Kent County.

It is never going to happen John as most of the good ones have been converted to either F4 or kent so the small zetec pool is now even smaller.

After 2007 you will have to convert or your car will be worthless but this is a bit off topic!

gixxer · 17 Jan 2007, 09:23 (Ref:1817274)

Its just a pity they're not going to castle combe for the carnival, the races last year were superb that would have been an excellent way for castle combe to celebrate 40 yrs of fford from the old to the new versions of in one day but i suppose looking at it they did exactly that but a year too early

Century · 17 Jan 2007, 11:14 (Ref:1817368)

my understanding is that they did try, but threr was no space in the Carnival programme left.

Ian Sowman · 17 Jan 2007, 11:18 (Ref:1817372)

My understanding is that UKFF left sorting out their dates longer than Combe could wait...