Renaults

[Osella]

Sorry if this has been covered before, but it's sad that Renault have stopped making the Avantime. Seems people cannot do without their Deutsche Luxo-Barges!

[josvandeperre]

I'm sure they still have a few (hundred) left if you are really desperate to own one !

[garcon]

Nice and cheap too.

If you can bear to be laughed at every time you go out in it.

Ideal for former Fiat Multipla owners...

[davemorganfan]

Much as I dislike the thing, it was brave of them to try. It's about time there was some real variety in the luxury car market. Personally, all the Kraut cars leave me cold. Probably because I can't afford one......

[garcon]

Try one with heated seats....

[davemorganfan]

Originally posted by garcon
Try one with heated seats....

Guess that's what it takes to inject some warmth into their soullees personality...

[garcon]

Of course, one often mistakes ergonomically perfect, faultless, reliable for soulless.

Why is it that a car must have "quirks" (aka things that weren't designed properly) and "character" (i.e. you never know if it's gonna start in the morning) for it to have soul.

It's the only reason the French and Italians get away with churning out utter year after year.

Not sure how GM and Ford do it - their cars are all and soulless...

[Tristan]

I REALLY liked the Avantime. I mean, it was OBVIOUS it was never going to sell, particularly as the interior resembled that of a Mégane (I sat in one once and had a good long play).

I LOVE the new generation of Renaults. But I would NEVER buy one. Says it all, really.

[TimD]

Must confess I rather liked the Avantime too. But when all is said and done, it's a Renault. And I had a Renault 30. It was without a doubt the worst-built car I ever made the mistake of owning. It's been 14 years now, but I still haven't forgiven it the nights of waiting up for the AA. It'll be a long time before I get another Renault...

[woodyracing]

I quite like the latest Laguna.

[davemorganfan]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by garcon
[B]Of course, one often mistakes ergonomically perfect, faultless, reliable for soulless.

Why is it that a car must have "quirks" (aka things that weren't designed properly) and "character" (i.e. you never know if it's gonna start in the morning) for it to have soul.

It doen't take such things to give a car character. I find (most) German cars to be cold and clinical devices, particularly in the design of both interior and exterior. Their interiors are particularly unwelcoming, with hard flat surfaces and a choice of materials that would be more at home in a hospital. Reliability? A myth fostered by advertising and marketing bods. My brother in law and a colleague could tell you alarming things about the problems they encountered with VWs. Not that German cars are particularly bad in this respect, but they are certainly not the paragon they are percived to be. Ergonomics? Don't think so - dashboards full of rows of tiny and identical buttons.

[Osella]

I think a lot of modern German cars are the equivalent of US 'trucks';
I'm referring to overweight little VW Golfs here, but also the luxobarges.

Much as I admire the technology of a 7 series or an S-Class, the fact remains that these vehicles represent overkill.
Could the whole of the world, were we all 'equal', whatever that means, please, don't distract yourself by debating it here, afford a planet where the default car was a Hummer, a 7 or an S?? Or even a 4Motion?
Doubt it.

Of course if I owned one my opinion may differ.

If I sold crack cocaine my opinion on that may also be swayed.

I wish sometimes, that people would remember that the car is intended primarily as an improvement on the horse, a function that the Mini, 2CV, Beetle, Volvo 121 perform exceptionally, and that the function of motorsport is to provide a form of armed struggle without the need for death or territorial loss.

[Dick Spanner]

Originally posted by Tristan
I sat in one once and had a good long play

Er, Tristan, didn't the owner's mind?

[Tristan]

No not at all. They positively encouraged people to crawl all over it. The Motorshow was fun for that kinda thing. Also sat in a Caterham R400, Porsche Cayenne AND a GT2, and... oh christ too many to mention. Managed to activate the boot release on the VW Phaeton. It was on one of those revolving stands but I leant out and touched the VW badge on the boot and... hey presto!! Very clever mechanism, if rather pointless.

[Dick Spanner]

I suspect my attempt's at being rude sometimes go unnoticed.

Motor show was fun though, I had a sit in the Vauxhall VX220. Very nice, but getting out with the roof on was fun (a knowledge of yoga would have been useful) and kind of going back to the thread, I think the new Megane look's quite good in 5 door form (hideous in 3 door).

[Tristan]

"I suspect my attempt's at being rude sometimes go unnoticed."

Don't worry, I too have a dirty mind.

[Bluebottle]

Originally posted by Tristan
"I suspect my attempt's at being rude sometimes go unnoticed."

Don't worry, I too have a dirty mind.

No, really?

[bella]

on a slight tangent, the porsche cayenne. didn't know it was out yet but one nearly drove over the top of me on the m1 the other day. they're definitely porsches but obviously fell out of the ugly tree.

i'd have a clio. i know someone who's had oodles of them and they worked ok. but i'm not sure about all this electrical stuff that's going on. surely at least some of them will go wrong.

[Dick Spanner]

Autocar have published a "Best handling car for under £15,000" test done at Rockingham this week and the Clio Cup (stripped down lighter version of 172) came in 3rd or 4th of 20'ish car's which was a good result. They did criticize the quality of the interior but countered by saying you'd be having too much fun to notice.

Just for info, Mazda MX5 won despite slower lap time's.

Cayenne seem's achingly capable but I suspect it's also ugly enough to lose Porsche plenty of sales much as the Scorpio did for Ford (now that was one ugly car!!).

[Tristan]

I have read several astonishing reviews for the Cayenne Turbo. YES, it's ugly, but then if you're buying an SUV the size of a juggernaught I'd imagine looks aren't that high a priority. Kinda like fuel economy...

[Dick Spanner]

Hmm, not sure about that Tristan, in truth an awful lot of Juggernaut size SUV's are bought to go to Tesco's and do the school run and in those instances look's may well play a part but the Cayenne's badge does at least have snob value.
I guess the problem these day's is that a lot of manufacturer's are hung up on heritage and making sure "it look's like a Porsche", let's face it when the 928 came out it looked nothing like any Porsche that had gone before but back then car maker's were more willing to risk bold new design's and idea's (which I think neatly bring's us back to Renault who can not have that criticizm levelled at them.)

[carrera]

The 928 just got better and better as it was developed, nice car to drive and have a bit of fun in, but impractical in the luggage lugging department.
I'll own up to owning a Renault as it is a Trafic 100 SL27 panel van, a wonderful bit of kit, six speed box, electric windows, electric mirrors, rear wash/wipe, cd player etc., light years away from the Transit.