ALMS 2012 Discussion

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by seanyb505

Going back to Audi at PLM: I know that A.) they would have to skip a race in a championship they are a part of and that B.) they will likely be leading said championship. In theory, would Audi want the PLM crown back after 3 losses? Or would not having Peugeot there to compete against devalue PLM as a whole?

A) They don't have to skip a WEC race because Borerain was moved to earlier date, also for a team that big it's definitely doable to go from Fuji to Atlanta in one week
B) Audi will now dominate WEC whatever happens so there are no risks involved with PLM participation, also it's important market place for them

[AGD]

IMSA/ALMS has had a big dilemma on their hands as far as what regulations they will give their P1 cars for Sebring, but that dilemma might have increased in intensity with the Peugeot deal. Obviously, the expectation is that Audi will be the only strong competitor at Sebring especially with Toyota absent. Does this make IMSA more willing to give their cars a lot of BoP to make them competitive so there is a show? If they do, what will teams like Strakka, Rebellion, and so forth think? All things equal, their cars should be close in speed to say Muscle Milk's car, but if they get more restricted, they'll likely get crushed by the IMSA cars (well, at least Muscle Milk) while still being too slow to keep up with Audi. Granted, WEC P1 and ALMS P1 will be different classes, but everyone is going to view it as being one big class. I'm sure WEC P1 privateers don't want to be competing against P2s and stuff like that.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by AGD

IMSA/ALMS has had a big dilemma on their hands as far as what regulations they will give their P1 cars for Sebring, but that dilemma might have increased in intensity with the Peugeot deal. Obviously, the expectation is that Audi will be the only strong competitor at Sebring especially with Toyota absent. Does this make IMSA more willing to give their cars a lot of BoP to make them competitive so there is a show? If they do, what will teams like Strakka, Rebellion, and so forth think? All things equal, their cars should be close in speed to say Muscle Milk's car, but if they get more restricted, they'll likely get crushed by the IMSA cars (well, at least Muscle Milk) while still being too slow to keep up with Audi. Granted, WEC P1 and ALMS P1 will be different classes, but everyone is going to view it as being one big class. I'm sure WEC P1 privateers don't want to be competing against P2s and stuff like that.

I doubt they do anything. In 2010 race Peugeots were the only diesels racing and therefore only ones capable of winning, yet IMSA didn't give them any handicaps.

Cytosport might moan something about it but it's lesser evil than messing up with equivalence when non-ALMS petrols are also involved

[simontibbett]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Also, Peugeot dropping out doesn't change anything for Audi... they could have chosen to run PLM anyway. The question is though, would the addition of Audi alone make for a better event? IMO, it would make it worse.

Who cares about testing? hmmmm... I seem to recall Audi and Peugeot being there from something like Thursday or Friday the week before the race testing... it would seem as though they cared.

Audi and Peugeot both tested on the official Sunday and Monday test days before Petit, the previous year I don't recall Peugeot going out, and the year before that I can state for fact that Peugeot didn't even open their paddock "Building."

There's PLENTY of testing before Petit in the form of practice to dial a car in that isn't brand new, they've been, they have an idea of a rough base setup.

[Simmi]

Colin Braun in at CORE Autosport this season.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...ore-autosport/

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Colin Braun in at CORE Autosport this season.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...ore-autosport/

It will be interesting to see how he gets along in a LMPC. also nice to see Core announce something for 2012, hope they get the other car sorted as well.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Colin Braun in at CORE Autosport this season.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...ore-autosport/

Good to see him making a more convincing step back towards sportscars.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Chiana

I doubt they do anything. In 2010 race Peugeots were the only diesels racing and therefore only ones capable of winning, yet IMSA didn't give them any handicaps.

Cytosport might moan something about it but it's lesser evil than messing up with equivalence when non-ALMS petrols are also involved

I think you're right in saying that IMSA won't do anything significant even though they are allowed to use their own rules (maybe they'll give Dyson a BoP advantage compared to Muscle Milk). However, 2010 was a slightly different situation. If IMSA did something to hurt Peugeot then, Peugeot could have just stayed home and it would not have mattered. Audi and everyone else is kind of stuck with the WEC. Well, in theory at least. Plus, the best ALMS cars in 2010 were actually P2 cars, but that's a whole different matter. Yeah, I'm guessing not much will happen. Maybe a butt-kicking can be justified by the ALMS if Audi debuts their hybrid at Sebring.

[Fogelhund]

Dyson and Pickett were quite clear that they needed to be competing for overall wins at all the races. I might suggest that IMSA will do something to satisfy those supporting them.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Dyson and Pickett were quite clear that they needed to be competing for overall wins at all the races. I might suggest that IMSA will do something to satisfy those supporting them.

You and I can suggest all we want, but the ALMS seems to prefer the suggestions of the ACO. We'll see what happens though.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by AGD

You and I can suggest all we want, but the ALMS seems to prefer the suggestions of the ACO. We'll see what happens though.

Well Dyson and MM got new cars so that helps their effort I suppose. Hopefully MM will be on pace with Straka and JRM. There isn't really anybody to compare Dyson to with their engine choice.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by joeb

Well Dyson and MM got new cars so that helps their effort I suppose. Hopefully MM will be on pace with Straka and JRM. There isn't really anybody to compare Dyson to with their engine choice.

The problem is that Muscle Milk and Dyson don't want to be competitive with JRM and Strakka, they want to compete for the overall win. Maybe there will be a surprise and Muscle Milk, JRM, and Strakka will be on pace with Audi even without manipulation, but I don't think Muscle Milk is counting on that happening. The ALMS seemingly have the right to give Muscle Milk and Dyson the rules that will allow them to compete for the overall win regardless of what their true pace is, but I don't know if they will exercise that right. Doing so could be a poison pill as far as Sebring's future with the WEC, but we'll see.

As for Dyson, their new car may give them more performance, but I don't know how many gains they will make. They were running light with their old car so they always had that. Plus, they will have Cochran driving for them again. I don't think Dyson has much of a compelling case to argue for BoP politics that will allow them to run for the overall win when they put Cochran in the seat.

[Jonerz]

This is a hail Mary and wold take a highly improbable set of circumstances to unfold were this to happen, but were the ALMS to uncork its LMP1 entrants is there a chance that perhaps Rebellion would run one car as a WEC entrant and one as an "ALMS" entrant so as to have a shot at the glory?

Chris

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

This is a hail Mary and wold take a highly improbable set of circumstances to unfold were this to happen, but were the ALMS to uncork its LMP1 entrants is there a chance that perhaps Rebellion would run one car as a WEC entrant and one as an "ALMS" entrant so as to have a shot at the glory?

Chris

That's an interesting hypothetical. I guess the ALMS could allow that. I'm not sure if Muscle Milk, Dyson, and the ACO would be amused by such a move, but perhaps it could be justified if Rebellion ran another ALMS race or two. Of course, I'm not sure if this situation could ever occur because I don't know if there will be enough free grid spots for a non-full-time team to enter a car at Sebring this year.

[Canada ALMS fan]

I would argue Rebellion is LESS likely now to come to the ALMS with the likelihood of a podium in WEC P1 much higher now.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

I would argue Rebellion is LESS likely now to come to the ALMS with the likelihood of a podium in WEC P1 much higher now.

Probably. There is arguably less competition (we'll see what Toyota offers) and maybe the ACO may be more desperate to BoP the P1 field.

As far as the Sebring BoP goes, if the ALMS (or the ACO for that matter) decides to balance the field, will they have enough data to do so? How will the ACO/IMSA know how much boost Muscle Milk (for example) needs to run equal to Audi? Will it be a shot in the dark guess?

[Coach Ep]

The ACO is not gonna change anything on their regs prior to Sebring, they´ve set their rules for this year, adjustments can be made after Spa. So no extra slowing down the Audi´s at Sebring. IMSA on the other hand could give their P1 runners a nice little extra boost, outperforming their WEC gasoline brothers.... (don´t think this is likely to happen).

Also expect Toyota not up to speed at Spa - if only for BoP reasons...

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

I would argue Rebellion is LESS likely now to come to the ALMS with the likelihood of a podium in WEC P1 much higher now.

True, but I don't think it was ever a real possibility to see Rebellion in the ALMS anyways. It was all just posturing in my opinion.

[911targa]

Here's the first poster of 2012 12h Sebring
http://www.endurance-info.com/versio...MS_Artwork.jpg

Notice the 2012 spec RSR in the distance, is that Falken with new liveries or a suggestion of a new GT3 RSR team announcement?

[rich07]

Theres three teams running Porsche this year in GT. Lizards, Falken and one other team whos name i cant recall right now. That could be the car of the third team or it could be the Falken car and its just the color of the poster thats confusing.

Nice poster though, think I just found a new wallpaper.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by rich07

Theres three teams running Porsche this year in GT. Lizards, Falken and one other team whos name i cant recall right now. That could be the car of the third team or it could be the Falken car and its just the color of the poster thats confusing.

Paul Miller

EDIT: I'm not sure if that poster is designed to show off 2012 paint schemes and models. For example, there are no BHHs on the cars or BHFs on the Rebellion car and so forth. Of course, who would want to see those hideous things on a race poster?

[rich07]

Originally Posted by AGD

Paul Miller

Bingo! Your memory is better then mine

[Coach Ep]

Paul Miller livery last years was white over black.

Could it be this?

@dsceditor Graham Goodwin
Hope to confirm next week an as yet unannounced GTE addition to the 2012 ALMS!

Of course it might as well be one of these:

- RSR Jaguar
- Risi Ferrari
- Audi R8
- AMG-Mercedes SLS
- Ford GT (Lambda)
- Deltawing squeezed into GT division

Anyway, hope it´s a welcome addition!

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Paul Miller livery last years was white over black.

Perhaps it is a fictional car given that it is almost a blob of paint. Or maybe it's a GTC car. Who knows.

Could it be this?

Risi and Jaguar would probably be good guesses. Lotus too perhaps. I don't know.

[Deleted]

Please anything but RSR... even thou I absolutely love reading their press releases after the races, claiming how well they're doing! Hilarious stuff.

Mr Risi said on an interview that he would prefer a full-season ALMS programme over GA, but we'll see. Apparently he's not happy about the IMSA/ACO performance balancing but if he really chooses Grand-Am instead and wins a couple of events there, rest assured that the 458 will be immediately loaded with extra ballast and other adjustments