GT & GT-HO model designation resurrection ....

[XR_Club]

Hi all, and thank you for your welcomes! It is great to see such a lively and varied chat forum available here in Qld for Australian Motorsport in general!
In reference to Ray's mention of an XR GT variant model, I have not read anything in MRA about that, but I can say that I just got off the phone with Ford Motor Co in Broadmeadows, and they have posed some questions relating to possibilities, and I just wanted to run them by you all to get some feedback, along with Club Members, to furnish back to Ford.

Both Ford & Tickford use the XR Club and the RACV as their consultative bodies for future planning options, engine upgrades and the like for Tickford badged and High Perf Fords in the future, and indeed, many of the new styling and performance options you have seen already (220Kw XR8 and probable 255Kw V8 upgrade later this year for Utes, Sedans and T-Series) have been sourced directly from our Club Members, Dealership involvement as well as public feedback we channel back to Ford & Tickford, and I'd be most delighted to include your constructive ideas as well.

One of the questions posed to me was *IF* Ford & Tickford were to co-opt on a project that included resurrecting the GT and possibly the GT-HO model designations, what would you all like to see as part of that package.
Now I know the temptation is to rush and say you'd like to see a 400Kw+ fire breathing monster that devours HSV's and Rex's quicker than a Kampuchean at a pie eating contest, but the reality is this at present.

Ford do NOT plan on bringing in or including in their V8 range, anything over a *publicized* 300 kilowatts.
The GT Coupe that was seen at the Melbourne Motor Show recently and has been the subject of much speculation, has since been cancelled, due to an unworkable arrangement requested by Millards, the company that was to have been Ford co-partner in the initial spec sorting.
This was a disappointment, but certainly a huge relief for Holden, who, immediately after the specs of the Coupe were known, immediately isued a statement saying 'we're not interested in a horsepower war'. Convenient eh? *smile*

But anyway, it is highly likely that any future GT or GT-HO model will be styled on both the performance and visual precedence set already by the XW - XY GT & GT-HO models and subsequent XA- XB GT's.
The vehicle will not be a leather clad showpony, with all the trimmings, but will have a modest amount of options, as per the original GT's and HO's.
Given that Ford, in present and medium term forward projectioning are unlikely to go much over 300Kw (an interesting sideline is that the GT spec 4.6 Quad Cam engine that was slated to appear in the Coupe, was quoted at '300+' kilowatts for a reason. The engine option considered for this vehicle was to have ben the stroker 5.6 Quad Cam engine, capable of a tweak to close to 400Kw .. very similar to a V8 Supercar).
Consider also, that the original XY GT-HO had, from factory, 330HP, or approx 246 Kw at its disposal. Now the XY was considerably heavier than the present day AU XR's, and with far less ability in the chassis as well as getting useable traction to the ground.
300 Kw, properly mated to a suitable gearbox / chassis set up, would produce a car certainly in keeping with, and likely exceeding that kind of ancestry.
Consider also, that the GT Coupe was tested at You Yangs and cut a 12.6 sec 1/4 mile, using a base 4.6 Quad Cam engine outputting a conservative 265Kw, and you start getting an idea of just how much potential would be in a 300 Kw Sedan version (the whole Coupe concept, for now, has ben put on hold - NOT discarded)

Also, what kind of styling in terms of exterior venting, spoilers, scoops etc would you like to see? What sort of colours? The new PPG Harlequin paint range is beautiful, but perhaps a modern day treatment of old colour schemes like an updated version of Emerald Fire Green, Vermillon Red, Wild Violet etc?

So narrow it down to Engine / Power you'd like to see, Style (both exterior optioning body kits and vents, scoops etc), Colours, *Realistic* pricing (remember, a well optioned XR8 costs around
$50k -$55k, and we're talking about a full on GT / GT-HO performance flagship here) and generally what you would expect to see if Ford were to reintroduce the GT and GT-HO models.

Certainly, they would be Limited Edition models, restricted to perhaps a build run of 300 per year or per model .. anything that you may think of.

I will collate and return all responses to the relevant Ford dept 2 weeks after the Qld 500, where we will also be gathering Club Member feedback for this survey.

Cheers for now and fingers crossed for a super weekend at Willowbank!

Regards,

David aka XR

[Crash Test]

Welcome aboard there XR!

Good to see anyother QLD Ford lover, QR will be a hoot

I've just moved this one into the Road Car Forum, it'll probably get a better run in here.

[Airhead]

David,
Great post. Where to start. It seems Ford have gone away from the specialist high performance market with the 'T' series being very much in the Grande Tourismo fashion of deep leather and comparitively modest performance.

As a 40 year old Fairmont owner. Give me this level of comfort, plus the performance of the 220 - 250 kilowat engine. Yes I'm probably conservative. Do this all for mid to high 40's and I'll trade my wife in the deal. In other words give me a modern day GT. Not a rubbed over show pony as the last two anniversary models have been.

[elephino]

Welcome XR.

As someone who will probably never buy a Falcon or a Commodore as they do not suit me, I am still interested in the two marques and the cars they produce. I also like to see both do well in the market place. So if you ever need an impartial opinion

There isn't much need for more than 300kw in Australian cars, as they probably cannot handle more than that without major remodification due to having to be based on cars that are designed for mass production. Not to mention that the majority of Australian drivers cannot cope either, some have enough problems with Hyundais.

The re-resurection of the GT name would be a good idea, especially with Holden bringing back Monaro for the coupe (which personally is not a good idea, yet probably markets well). And I agree it should follow the lead of the original GT and be a performance car first and then add the extras. I'm not so sure on the HO plate though as really, if it was to return it should have "handling options" as the name suggests.

As for what to have on the car. It would have to have more power than a T-series or XR Falcon, but it doesn't have to be a lot. Just enough to edge it in front. So if the XR has 255kw, the maybe 270kw would be enough. For bonnet scoops and vents, I am against them if they are for show only. Basically it needs something to set it apart more than leap out at you, yet still stand out from the rest of the Falcon range. Difficult I know.

A decent traction control would be good too, but one that can be switched off. Bigger brakes would be good too. For the interior I'd say a new dash (don't follow Holden and have colour coded dash).

300 per year sounds about right for the GT. Any more than that and you lose the appeal of it being rare.

Anything else you'd like to know?

[AGGY]

Hey guys...how heavy do you think a XY GTHO is, 1700kg`s maybe.

Did they have air& steer...i`d be surprised if they had more than 220kw`s in todays money.

Plus a HG 350 Monaro always destroys these shopping trolley XY`s.
Fords of those days couldn`t handle a Monaro,the Mon had better brakes and steering.

Plus XY`s look like heavy tractors...HT-HG Monaros are a pure shape.

[Ray Bell]

The XY GT-HO was more like 1400kgs, I think you'll find... and of course they didn't have air and power steer as standard, they were planned as race cars.

The HG GTS350 actually had inferior brakes, the XY's being ventilated and the same size as those on the Holden... mind you the back ones might not have been so good... but 84% or something of the braking is on the front anyway.

No, AGGY, you might have an argument if the General had raced the HQ 350, but the brakes would have been the archilles heel on the HG. Steering and power would have been much of a muchness, a slight edge in the engine to the Holden, big edge in reliability along with that.

As for shape, beauty is in the eye of the beholder... I beheld both with not much pleasure, so I can't judge. It is clear, though, that the 'pure shape' belonged to the Falcon, as the Holden was a coupe based on sedan panels...

[AGGY]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
The XY GT-HO was more like 1400kgs, I think you'll find... and of course they didn't have air and power steer as standard, they were planned as race cars.

...

That`s what i thought,plus no air or steer...sounds like 200kw plus V8 torque would pull 14.6 quarter huh.Not 260kw.

[Ray Bell]

Probably too much wheelspin...

[AGGY]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Probably too much wheelspin...

Maybe someone can source 80-110kph times,beyond the point of traction.

[Ray Bell]

Falcon was 3316 lbs against the HG Monaro's 3308 lbs... you do the conversion and let us know. Holden was 300bhp @ 4800 rpm, 380 ft lbs @ 3200. Falcon was 290bhp @ 4800, 385 ft lbs @ 3200.

Man, these babies had six inch wheels.

[AGGY]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Falcon was 3316 lbs against the HG Monaro's 3308 lbs... you do the conversion and let us know. Holden was 300bhp @ 4800 rpm, 380 ft lbs @ 3200. Falcon was 290bhp @ 4800, 385 ft lbs @ 3200.

Man, these babies had six inch wheels.

I think Monaro is 1370kg`s and 300=225kw...but Monaro HG 350 ran 15.5,the same time a VN commodore V6 with 127kw...now tell me,doesn`t that look doubtful to you.

[Ray Bell]

Yep... they're understating today's power outputs to avoid upsetting the Gov...

But have you done your sums right, or are you as bad at maths as you are with thinking?

[AGGY]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Yep... they're understating today's power outputs to avoid upsetting the Gov...

But have you done your sums right, or are you as bad at maths as you are with thinking?

I assume "you`re" refering to my tearing apart of the Montoya myth.

[Ray Bell]

Once again, you make it too hard to reply to you without destroying your dignity...

Leave it at that, eh?

Might be a good idea if you look at the past and start to understand where today came from...

[AGGY]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Once again, you make it too hard to reply to you without destroying your dignity...

Leave it at that, eh?

Might be a good idea if you look at the past and start to understand where today came from...

Forgive me for basing my judgements on what has actually occured vs what might happen in the future.

But as you implied embarrassing yourself,yes we can leave it.

[Airhead]

Interesting,

As far as road holding and the feeling thr driver has behind the wheel. It is my experience that the Fords had it all over the Holdens of this era. I have never liked the lack of feed back through the wheel that was inherent in all Holdens up to the Commodore. Then I think the balance shifted the general's way big time.

The other interesting thing is that both companies kept the same basic under body/floor plan layout through the sixties and the seventies. And in Fords' case to the eighties in the XF. Having had both. To drive an XF is like driving a fancier XY. They have the same feel. Except the non power steering in the XY I prefer.

Power with the V8's much of a muchness. Except the hot up after market really boomed for the Holden/Chev product and was/is pretty rare and expensive for Ford bolt ons.

I'm probably way off topic here but there you go.

[Ray Bell]

I realised later that I quoted horsepower for the XW, not the XY.. and I feel sure the XY not only had more to start with, but had some upgrades in its lifetime...

Anyone know?

[DAVID PATERSON]

Perhaps the best way to build a GT today is to consider what the GT was i it's day. It was a Fairmont, with a flashy paint job, sports wheel, mags, a V8 and sports suspension. Perhaps, you could argue that that car exists already, it's called an XR8.

[Ray Bell]

Not being an expert on the subject, David, I'll bow to greater knowledge... but I'm sure the GTs and the GT HOs lacked some items fitted to fairmonts... and you rarely saw them with a vinyl roof.

[AGGY]

Originally posted by DAVID PATERSON
Perhaps the best way to build a GT today is to consider what the GT was i it's day. It was a Fairmont, with a flashy paint job, sports wheel, mags, a V8 and sports suspension. Perhaps, you could argue that that car exists already, it's called an XR8.

Good point..in fact the EB11 XR8 decimated the Phase 111 around eastern creek,with a smaller engine.

The EB11 had 165kw,the current XR8 has 220kw and is running 14.6 quarters...the same time the Phase111 did...but the XR8 has more weight and air+steer,both drain useable engine power.

So the old engines where torquey but not 260kw`s plus.

[DAVID PATERSON]

Ray, my Dad had an XY GT and still has numerous books on them and the GT was in fact based on the Fairmont. The interior is identical, except for the dash, with the addition of instruments, a sports wheel and GT badges. Auto, air and steer were all optional on both the Fairmont and GT, as was the vinyl roof, though of course they were far more popular on the Fairmont.

[Airhead]

Yep David's right. Having hashad an XY Fairmont the GT was a V8 version with a bit of attitude. The XR8 however is based on the Falcon trim level.

[AGGY]

Originally posted by AMoffat
Yep David's right. Having hashad an XY Fairmont the GT was a V8 version with a bit of attitude. The XR8 however is based on the Falcon trim level.

Yeah...but it has different seats and interior colouring.

I`m disappointed by Falcon S...THAT`S a Falcon with mags plus minor suspension changes.

I mean why would you buy a S and not a futura,i don`t think you can even get the V8 in the S,how ridiculous is that.

I think the XR6 should be replaced with a $37000 200KW V8 S.

And 4ltr six S pack should be 33 000.

[Crash Test]

Arrghhh...those EBII's with the whole kit must have crashed into the same ugly stick at the end of the Ford production line as the Ka...

One area I think where Ford got one over HSV of late may have been in their flashy utes.

[AGGY]

Originally posted by Crash Test
Arrghhh...those EBII's with the whole kit must have crashed into the same ugly stick at the end of the Ford production line as the Ka...

One area I think where Ford got one over HSV of late may have been in their flashy utes.

Crash,i`m talking about bog stock XR8,not the EB11 GT.

Yes the utes are cool,and about to get 5.4ltrs.