2010 calendar shaping up

[strider]

Originally Posted by jab

Spa are interested in rotating with the 'Ring - I think this is going to happen. Not necessarily good for the fans but it makes commercial sense

This would be sad, but better that than lose both circuits completely. I shall have to think of another means of getting my Spa fix in alternate years.

[Purist]

There's another one I forgot. I haven't heard much really recently, but there has been talk that the organizers want to add extensions (or an extension) to the WTCC street circuit in Marrakech, Morocco in order to possibly stage an F1 Moroccan GP. Obviously though, I have my doubts about this working out.

It's hard to say on Argentina. I cannot believe that they would be able and willing to foot the bill that Bernie demands.

I suppose San Luis might be able to get a Grade 1 certification, but it's a rather unimaginative circuit, and it's fairly remote. Potrero de los Funes is an excellent course that is already at least cleared up through Grade 2, but I shudder to think what Tilke might want to do to it, and it is even more remote.

I don't really know what to think about the idea of a new street circuit in Mar del Plata. Autodromo Oscar Galvez would obviously need work. Given what they demand for run-off, I can't see both infield sections being used, and either one could be considered to have issues by itself. Thus, the only way I could see to make the track longer than the recommended minimum is to use the long loop. I don't know what chicanery Tilke would plan for that, though I would suspect there would be some. It would also need to be widened; there's not point in cutting it off short since there's a lake in the way. Finally, it would be a regular undertaking to resurface and/or grind the Buenos Aires circuit because of the recurring bumps. Personally, I like the spark showers though.

[duke_toaster]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78240

South Korea has funding, but will the circuit be ready? I don't think it'll happen for one reason or another.

[jab]

If Donington's not going to be ready, and they're not even building a new circuit for that, the KIC won't be ready

[duke_toaster]

Has building work started though? The article says so. If so, how much progress has been made - perhaps these new investors will have a white elephant on their hands!

[jab]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

Has building work started though? The article says so. If so, how much progress has been made - perhaps these new investors will have a white elephant on their hands!

And yes, that's definitely the KIC and not Donington

[duke_toaster]

We don't know when it was, but it looks like some sort of start has been made, but little more than that ...

[jab]

Originally Posted by Dieter Rencken

The most accurate update is believed to be this, for it came from an insider with links to both the Formula One Teams' Association and Formula One Management, but the source stressed that it could, and would likely, change before the final calendar is published next month.

The calendar was constantly being juggled, he said, adding that what was an accurate reflection of its state on one day was likely to be outdated just 24 hours later. How so?

"Well, the difficulty (Bernie) Ecclestone has is to fill the calendar with 17 dates. Forget the 18 races everybody is talking about. We will be lucky if there are 17," he said before mentioning that Germany's Hockenheim was not (yet) committed to the cause, that rumours in Shanghai suggested the Chinese venue was seeking an out a year ahead of schedule and that Istanbul looked increasingly shaky.

The €90m five-year lifeline said to have been offered to Valencia's promoters by the local communitat was, he said, rumoured to be tentative and required ratification. It is public knowledge that doubts exist over Donington's readiness to host a race in June 2010.

"There could," he concluded, "be as few as 15 races on the 2010 grand prix calendar..."

There is a chink of light shining through all this darkness, namely that the Korea Auto Valley Operation, responsible for constructing a licensed grand prix circuit 320 kilometres south of Seoul, announced on Monday that they had managed to borrow around £95m from local banks in order to accelerate the project.

Yeongam province, within which the circuit lies, has pledged a further £80m. The promoters are hopeful of completing the 5.6 km circuit designed to accommodate 135,000 spectators, by July 2010, ready for a race later in the same year.

Still, 16 races is a far cry from F1's heyday in 2005, when 19 races were held, and 20- or even 25-race calendars were being mooted, and equal to the fallow 1999/2003 and 2008 seasons.

Not good at all. Considering there are circuits that would make perfectly capable hosts and would bring good crowds, 16 races is far too few. 15 would be farcical

Full article here

[blaffer]

I wouldn't mind Bahrain and Singapore to be scrapped from the calendar.
No atmosphere, boring races, dull tracks.

I would love to see Canada (Montreal or Mt Tremblant) and USA (Laguna Seca) on the calendar. Great traditions, real challenging circuits.

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by blaffer

I wouldn't mind Bahrain and Singapore to be scrapped from the calendar.
No atmosphere, boring races, dull tracks.

Bahrain is a somewhat dull circuit I agree, and its lack of spectators is a concern. It depends how long the royal family want to continue having a GP.

Singapore, on the other hand, despite all the reasons why the country shouldn't have a Grand Prix (which also apply to China to be fair) has a spectacular facility that has produce a good race. Whilst it may be a novelty that wears off, the night race element was very good aesthetically.

Neither will be dropped, however, because both are on reasonably long contracts. They'll be there next year probably. 2012 and 2013 ... who knows.

I would love to see Canada (Montreal or Mt Tremblant) and USA (Laguna Seca) on the calendar. Great traditions, real challenging circuits.

I agree that the US GP and Canadian GP need to be back, and in deed Canada could well come back. However, Mont Temblant and Laguna Seca would have great difficulty in gaining a Grade 1 licence (as required for Formula One). Laguna Seca, as good as it is, is probably too narrow for F1 cars and has inadequate runoff to hold a race and is also too short. Yes, there have been demo runs but they were just demo runs. Also, it has difficulty having enough hotels for fans, teams and so-on - IIRC it had problems when MotoGP goes there.

The most realistic venues are either new temporary facilities (therefore having lower speeds with lower run-off needs or in a car park) or a return to Indy. We'll see, FOTA want it back. I'd go for a race in Los Angeles or Las Vegas myself.

Originally Posted by jab

Not good at all. Considering there are circuits that would make perfectly capable hosts and would bring good crowds, 16 races is far too few. 15 would be farcical

Full article here

Yes, sixteen isn't good for anyone - especially Bernie who probably has a minimum number of races clause with the teams or broadcasters. There are other facilities that could probably hold GPs at reasonably short notice such as Jerez (but we don't want three races in Spain) and this new Algarve place.

I think that there are upsides to a Asian pullout in that it could free up calendar space for countries that need GPs (USA, Canada and in my opinion Finland, which would draw fans from all over the region)

[strider]

I will stop going on about Spa eventually, I promise, but I do think it should be on the calendar every year without fail, and the same goes for Suzuka. They are proper circuits that challenge the drivers and bring out the best in them.

When you think that France is the home of Grand Prix, it does seem wrong that there is no longer a race there.

It goes to show that Bernie's threat to do away with the British Grand Prix at one time was not an empty one. He respects only money, not tradition. For all that, I think he may have had a wake-up call when he saw the turnout at Silverstone this year and compared it with what everyone saw at some of the much-vaunted new venues.

What's more, here are the views of FIA Presidential candidate Ari Vatanen:

Vatanen also spoke to colleagues about pushing to keep the Formula 1 races in the traditional venues, like the UK, France and Germany, which are struggling to pay the circuit fees, rather than go to new venues which can pay higher fees, but not fill the grandstands.

“I am in favour of course of some new races – the Singapore night race or anything like that – because we need to renew ourselves.

“But if we go to the places where the tribunes are empty and at the same time traditional fans of F1 don’t have a race, there’s something wrong.

“The fact that Silverstone may not have a race, Hockenheim may not have a race next year, France may not have a race…it means we are alienating the traditional customers and fans and it is not so easy to win them back,” said Vatanen. Source.

[JeremySmith]

I agree completely with you, Spa must remain on the calendar and it is important for France to host a grand prix again..Silverstone is the home of the British Grand Prix end of story..

I think within four or five years some of the new circuits will be gone because who ever is providing the funding will find that the rewards are not really that great for country's that have little or indeed any racing history.

I liked very much what Ari Vatanen had to say in his interview..

[p-matt]

Originally Posted by jab

Not good at all. Considering there are circuits that would make perfectly capable hosts and would bring good crowds, 16 races is far too few. 15 would be farcical

Full article here

I don't see how there would be an issue in getting at least 17 races. There will be a GP in Britain - the question is Silverstone or Donington. I don't think there is serious risk of Valencia pulling out, nor Hockenheim if they are pushing for a GP every year. If Turkey and/or China pull out Portimao is ready and waiting and Korea will probably be ready.

[Sodemo]

How exactly does Spa lose 3 million euro per race?

[jab]

Originally Posted by p-matt

I don't see how there would be an issue in getting at least 17 races. There will be a GP in Britain - the question is Silverstone or Donington. I don't think there is serious risk of Valencia pulling out, nor Hockenheim if they are pushing for a GP every year. If Turkey and/or China pull out Portimao is ready and waiting and Korea will probably be ready.

Portimao? You can't just host a race on a whim like that. And Hockenheim aren't pushing for a race. They want out unless Bernie drastically cuts the fees. And Valencia is definitely at risk too. And there's no guarantee of Korea being ready either

Originally Posted by Sodemo

How exactly does Spa lose 3 million euro per race?

Because nobody goes anymore

[JeremySmith]

Spa had a good crowd this year did they not?

[jab]

Presumably because they did the sensible thing - moving to the Bank Holiday weekend

[duke_toaster]

That is the logical scheduling for Belgium - bearing in mind its ease of transport from the UK. It ought to be kept on that date, really. Is the 3 million euros figure for '09 or for '09?

[Dutton]

Originally Posted by blaffer

I would love to see Canada (Montreal or Mt Tremblant) and USA (Laguna Seca) on the calendar. Great traditions, real challenging circuits.

Well, Mt Tremblant is completely unrealistic. It would be seriously cool if it happened without destroying the track, but, in all reality, the investment/upgrades, and what not, to get it where it would have to be are just not going to happen.

However, if we are operating in the realm of wishing and assuming an unaltered track, then I would just love to see F1 back at Mosport. Modern F1 cars ripping around that track? Oh, my.................

Modern F1 cars going around an unaltered Mosport: I'd quit my job if I had to in order to get to that!

[Mr Pink]

Originally Posted by Dutton

Well, Mt Tremblant is completely unrealistic. It would be seriously cool if it happened without destroying the track, but, in all reality, the investment/upgrades, and what not, to get it where it would have to be are just not going to happen.

However, if we are operating in the realm of wishing and assuming an unaltered track, then I would just love to see F1 back at Mosport. Modern F1 cars ripping around that track? Oh, my.................

Modern F1 cars going around an unaltered Mosport: I'd quit my job if I had to in order to get to that!

And put the US round at Road America!

[strider]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

How exactly does Spa lose 3 million euro per race?

Apparently it was 3m pounds, not euros. The story goes that the circuit pays 10 to 12m pounds to hold the race, but only has grandstand seating for 40,000 people, the rest of the income coming from basic admission charges, so you can see where the difference lies. If anything this year was better than most, because it was dry on both Saturday and Sunday. It was also followed by the August Bank Holiday Monday, as jab has pointed out, making it more accessible for visitors from the UK. I'm not sure if August 22 next year achieves that.

This is the latest potential calendar, but it's still a long way from being final:

March 14        Bahrain (Sakhir)
March 28        Australia (Melbourne)
April 4         Malaysia (Sepang)
April 25        Turkey (Istanbul)
May 9           Spain (Barcelona)
May 23          Monaco (Monte Carlo)
June 6          Canada (Montréal)
June 27         Europe/Mediterranean (Valencia)
July 11         Britain (Donington Park) or Europe (Silverstone)
July 25         Germany (Hockenheim)
August 1        Hungary (Hungaroring)
August 22       Belgium (Spa-Francorchamps)
September 5     Italy (Monza)
September 19    Singapore (Singapore)
September 26    China (Shanghai)
October 10      Japan (Suzuka)
October 24      Brazil (Interlagos)
November 7      Abu Dhabi (Yas Marina)

There are 18 dates listed, so there is scope to lose one. Both Silverstone and Valencia cannot be Europe. If Donington Park drops out of the frame, presumably Silverstone will presumably become Britain.

Hockenheim is shaky.

It would be great to go back to Indianapolis, but that seems to be just a pipe dream.

[jab]

Originally Posted by strider

If Donington Park drops out of the frame, presumably Silverstone will presumably become Britain.

Can't unless Donington relinquish the rights to the British GP name. It's like with the German GP affair a couple of years ago. That's why it's down as the European GP. Valencia's race would become the Med GP (pinching the name from Enna)

[strider]

Originally Posted by jab

Can't unless Donington relinquish the rights to the British GP name. It's like with the German GP affair a couple of years ago. That's why it's down as the European GP. Valencia's race would become the Med GP (pinching the name from Enna)

But what if Donington defaults on its agreement with Bernie? Surely then it would forfeit its rights to the name?

[jab]

I'm not sure. Going by the "provisional provisional calendar", I guess not. It depends on whether Bernie will let them have a race in 2011 once the work is done - he'd earlier said they wouldn't, but earlier he'd also said that Silverstone wouldn't replace it and he's gone back on that