Acura/HPD's future plans

[avvelenamento]

for points 1 and 2, repeat during the first 3 races of ALMS (during sebring MM used 2012 arx-03a package) MM was able to compete equally against the #12 rebellion. Rebellion won at sebring being just a bit faster than MM (who lost a tire after a pit stop and received a penality for that), At long beach MM won with a wiser (and more lucky) pit stop strategy but however heidfeld in his last stint wasn't able to catch the MM hpd. At laguna seca MM won after a long duel against Rebellion #12, 6 seconds the final gap after 4 hours of race. Difference is that MM can fight equally against Rebellion in ALMS. Rebellion simply obliterated strakka racing during first 3 races of WEC. Same car and package, MM is great, strakka is shamefull. Sincerly I am not sure wich car is better, HPD receives more updates (infact was maybe the only private car to have a proper low-drag updated parts for le mans in 2012 and 2013, and the higher top speed confirms this), the lola b12/60 is maybe an overall better car, not so much anyway.

3. You're right, there is not any performance difference that justifies that price... but we can't know the overall price of the lola B12/60 TMG, so who knows.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by avvelenamento

3. You're right, there is not any performance difference that justifies that price... but we can't know the overall price of the lola B12/60 TMG, so who knows.

The B12/60 price won't change, the only difference being the leasing price of the TMG lump. Even if the price of the Toyota is $400k, which would be outrageous, you are looking at no more than $1.3-$1.4 million in cost.

[avvelenamento]

Maybe more than 1.4 mln$, maybe less, who knows. Anyway this should not be a problem, because a team knows how much have to spend to buy a car, so it's up to the team to consider the quality/price ratio of the car. More or less is like to say that ferrari 458 italia should be cheaper because a nissan gt-r has better performances and lower price.

[TF110]

You wont be seeing that Lola racing next year anyway, so I guess this discussion is pointless in the Hpd thread. Speaking of which, isn't their new coupe scheduled for an appearance soon?

[Christian Mogami]

The MWM Series boys last night was talking about which team is running the two HPD P1 Coupes in WEC.....their guess Ganassi.(they been pushing HPD for two free P2's or they will go Chevy next year)

My guess was Level 5 (they have the money)

with Strakka buying one

[Christian Mogami]

Some eye opening hints was in that Racer.Com story about the new HPD P1 engine.

HPD(Wirth)will not build the 2014 P1 Coupe unless the customer pays for it first.

It must be built to customers power requirements and drive(hybrid or no hybrid and how much ERC,2wd or 4wd)

So why would a team buy one for next year if there is only non-hybrid option available in 2014.

It would be better to run an ARX-03 with the new P1 engine next year then buy the new car for 2015 with the hybrid system.(Strakka,Muscle Milk)

[avvelenamento]

Basicly HPD should build and develope the car just for strakka (MM very likely will switch for izod indy).

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Christian Mogami

Some eye opening hints was in that Racer.Com story about the new HPD P1 engine.

HPD(Wirth)will not build the 2014 P1 Coupe unless the customer pays for it first.

It must be built to customers power requirements and drive(hybrid or no hybrid and how much ERC,2wd or 4wd)

So why would a team buy one for next year if there is only non-hybrid option available in 2014.

It would be better to run an ARX-03 with the new P1 engine next year then buy the new car for 2015 with the hybrid system.(Strakka,Muscle Milk)

This is the same programme you told us was going to be launched a few months back?

[Christian Mogami]

^
The customer backed out because of the cost and no ERS until 2015!

They was hoping for some help from Honda and it didn't come!

HPD can not fund this program,either one of Honda Co branches(Acura,Honda) pays for it from their marketing budget or the customer has to foot the whole bill.

[Simmi]

It's such a shame. Frustrating to see HPD and Oak showing willing but ultimately struggling to get a P1 off the ground. One needs a manufacturer to foot the bill, the other a customer...

[avvelenamento]

Originally Posted by Simmi

It's such a shame. Frustrating to see HPD and Oak showing willing but ultimately struggling to get a P1 off the ground. One needs a manufacturer to foot the bill, the other a customer...

Yeah, and the funny side of the story is that the original idea of OAK was to project a 2014 lmp1 coupè with HPD collaboration...
After this I can expect only rebellion as lmp1 private team next year... but also about the r-one project i have some doubts. Time after time lmp1 class became unsusteinable anymore for privates.

[TF110]

I wouldn't doubt the Rebellion operation. They obviously have the funds and did what Toyota is doing by dropping to one car. I expect strakka to be back, just wondering with what.

[avvelenamento]

Originally Posted by TF110

I wouldn't doubt the Rebellion operation. They obviously have the funds and did what Toyota is doing by dropping to one car. I expect strakka to be back, just wondering with what.

I am not worried about rebellion money, but did oreca ever build a true "oreca" chassis? Answer is no. Oreca 01 and 03 use old courage LC70/75 chassis, the rebellion R-one will be built by a racing team without any experience in close lmp1 chassis/monocoque. In my opinion Rebellion had to hire Adess for the R-one.

[carsten66]

Originally Posted by avvelenamento

I am not worried about rebellion money, but did oreca ever build a true "oreca" chassis? Answer is no. Oreca 01 and 03 use old courage LC70/75 chassis, the rebellion R-one will be built by a racing team without any experience in close lmp1 chassis/monocoque. In my opinion Rebellion had to hire Adess for the R-one.

For sure Oreca take advantage of running the Toyota works LMP1...

[TF110]

Oreca are experienced in making chassis'. The step up from lmp2 is not huge. The courage cars probably didn't need much tinkering, but the new regs will show their worth.

[deggis]

No link yet, so: http://www.racer.com/insight-inside-...rticle/311717/

[avvelenamento]

Sincerly don't know actually the advantage of oreca collaboration with toyota. Rebellion since 2011 had the exclusive right to use the RV8K, if toyota would like to keep on supporting them, I think it wasn't relevant the oreca involvment.
Oreca produces chassis because owns courage... they just bought the "know how". That's the reason why for them is easy to build courage designed chassis for their oreca 03, but they simply have not experience in close lmp1.
"The step up from lmp2 is not huge"
sure, is basicly the same to build an open cockpit chassis and build a close monocoque right? If it was so easy maybe the oreca-02 now was in grid and not just on papers.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by carsten66

For sure Oreca take advantage of running the Toyota works LMP1...

About 20 people (figure from Chaunac himself) "integrated" to TMG does not mean Oreca is running it.

[avvelenamento]

Agree, oreca involvment in toyota racing is marginal.

[TF110]

Hopefully Brabham has the means to run a new Hpd. This must be an attractive option but the funds for it seem to elude teams. Sad.

[carsten66]

Originally Posted by deggis

About 20 people (figure from Chaunac himself) "integrated" to TMG does not mean Oreca is running it.

My point was regarding the advantage. From Oreca: "TMG chose ORECA as its partner. Since the start of the project, ORECA has brought its operational support and experience of the discipline. This means engineers and mechanics in the field..." For all I care just call it partnership but to have the abiltiy to see into the data and design sheets of a works entry is an advantage, isn't it?

[CTD]

Originally Posted by avvelenamento

I am not worried about rebellion money, but did oreca ever build a true "oreca" chassis? Answer is no. Oreca 01 and 03 use old courage LC70/75 chassis, the rebellion R-one will be built by a racing team without any experience in close lmp1 chassis/monocoque. In my opinion Rebellion had to hire Adess for the R-one.

When Oreca bought Courage, they also got the personal responsible for building them - and that is some of the most experienced LMP manufactures!

So what you say, isn't true.

[Christian Mogami]

HPD wants L5 to switch to WEC and would like them in P1 instead of P2.

I wonder because of no interest in the new HPD P1 Coupe that Honda Co jump in with some money to at least get one car on the track so they can develop it so they will be better in 2015 when they get ERS.

My thoughts is Tucker will race a PC in USCC and his team will also have a WEC program with pro drivers.

[Christian Mogami]

Clearer picture why anybody has signed on with HPD to run P1 next year.

1)the soonest you can get the new Wirth Coupe is June 2014 but no ERS until 2015.

2)you can run the (grandfather in for 2014)ARX-03C next year but must run the NA V8 not the new V6 Turbo.

So that explains why if your Strakka or Muscle Milk you would wait until 2015 to buy the new HPD P1!

It would be better to switch their P1 to P2 spec and race in WEC P2 next year.

So next in WEC P1,there might be only a OAK or Dome with a HPD V6 Turbo engine.

[Simmi]

I wonder if Strakka had all that information to hand when they pulled out with an eye on next year? If not they've been hung out to dry a bit there.