Audi LMP1 Discussion

[chernaudi]

Cooling, yes. That's obvious, but to what? Considering that they already have brake ducts for the rear brakes, what else can they be used for? They're obviously quite big for just being brake ducts, and unless it's to do with electronics, there's not a ton back there to be cooled unless somehow they're able to funnel air to the radiator/intercooler group.

BTW, the session is going better for Audi, especially the #7. The #8 hasn't laid down a fast lap yet, but the #7 seems to be fairly competitive with the Porsches.

[Artur]

Originally Posted by cokata

S2 is the downforce sector + plus the straight. last year IIRC Porsche dumped 50+% of the hybrid energy there.

From what I have seen on the map, S1 and S3 have all the aero corners(T3-7 and T16-19) while S2 is the one of the long straight and a few slow corners.

#8 recorded 300kmh on speed trap vs Porsche's best of 293.

Even with this aero config, Audi still is better or matches Porsche on the aero stuff(you could see that on the faster corners of Nurb, when speedmeter of both were displayed). The problem is that they lose massively on the straights eventhough they end up with higher top speed.

With 8MJ being deployed vs Audi's 4, Porsche gains too much exiting the hairpin into the long straight and will remain much faster untill close to the end of it. That's my view on it, at least.

@chernaudi, on the pic you posted, the fw flaps are indeed totally cranked up. RW is also been run close it's max AoA, considering the LMPs have a very short chord to play with.

Imo, Audi will not come up with any major aero update this year in order to not give any early hint for Porsche to be able to copy on time for Le Mans. I won't be surprised if we will have to wait until Spa to see a very different and updated car from Audi. And the current aero development of Audi is already miles ahead, mind you.

Looking into FP2 data, #8 & #7 are the fastest on S1 & S3(the downforce sectors). They lost on S2 but not massively anymore.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Audi now appear to be able to produce some decent performance. It looks like the low-drag Spa-spec package doesn't work too bad at COTA after all... for the time being at least.

This being said, Porsche still look to be more consistent over longer runs.

I hope we get a chance to see a closer fight between Audi and Porsche, and that tire wear will spice up the race a bit as well.

[chernaudi]

Strange to see that Audi were faster in the twisty bits with less downforce than the seemingly high downforce Porsches were.

There's also not a huge top speed discrepancy between Audi and Porsche, either, not like it was at the Nurburgring.

Either Audi found some grip, or Porsche have trimmed off downforce to maximize top speed.

[deggis]

Quarterly Audi to F1 rumor, but this time it comes with the backdrop of Red Bull terminating its contract with Renault one year early:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/34297046

And how would this "oops" affect any current or future racing plans? http://www.latimes.com/business/auto...918-story.html

[Artur]

Curiously, Audis and Porsches are matched on S1/S3. The difference comes entirely from S2 where Audi loses a second.

Just shows how, despite the long straight, the most important thing is the acceleration out of the slow corner rather than top speed(Audi remains with 300kmh while the Porsches with 292kmh)

I'm not too confident on Audi's race pace but hope to be proved wrong

[MyNameIsNigel]

The Porsche still appear to have the edge in terms of performance consistency over longer runs. It will be a hard battle for Audi but we have yet to see how tire wear will affect the game. Let's hope for the entertainement that Audi will at least be able to catch up thanks to better tire management.

[cokata]

Porsche now have more downforce than Audi, so i don't think the tire wear is going to be a problem for them now.

[Artur]

Originally Posted by cokata

Porsche now have more downforce than Audi, so i don't think the tire wear is going to be a problem for them now.

On what do you base that Porsche has more downforce than Audi now?

During Nurb's 6h, they had pretty much the same cornering speeds through the faster corners(when speedmeter of both cars were shown)

Also, even on this relatively low downforce/drag config, Audi still matched Porsche on S1/S3(where the fast corners are). The only place where Audi lost is S2 and there are no aerodynamically important corner there.

If anything, Audi looks to have way better Lift/Drag numbers

[chernaudi]

The downforce won't help Porsche where it seems that their major tire wear problems are--in the low speed corners. That's where Porsche really hammer their tires is trying to accelerate out of slow corners.

[Ephaeton]

Originally Posted by Artur

On what do you base that Porsche has more downforce than Audi now?

I guess on a comment by Hindy during the CotA WEC Qualifying stream which said that "one hears" that Porsche has brought more downforce than Audi to the track.

[chernaudi]

Problem is that it seems that downforce isn't helping Porsche though the twisty bits (sectors 1&3) very much. It seems that Porsche's speed is coming almost entirely from dumping over half their hybrid energy down that back straight.

Also, looking further to the future, since Audi are building a new chassis for next year, a couple of questions/thoughts: could we see them use the legality bump deal that Porsche/Onroak have used so they can have a more aggressive fastback roofline like the older R18 variants had.

And also, could we also see Audi, with the battery pack almost assuredly being heavier than the flywheel, build their first left-hand drive closed LMP1 car since the R8C from 1999?

[Artur]

I think both are quite possible and maybe much more. I won't be surprised if we see a completely different car. Zander arrived this year, right? If so, I reckon we'll still see lot's of new tricks on the future Audi.(this guy was one of the few, outside Newey, who impressed me on F1)

The rear end will definitely feature stuff like the ones on the Porsches:
http://imgur.com/a/xoQ0W

[joeb]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

The Porsche still appear to have the edge in terms of performance consistency over longer runs. It will be a hard battle for Audi but we have yet to see how tire wear will affect the game. Let's hope for the entertainement that Audi will at least be able to catch up thanks to better tire management.

I agree, the wear in the heat will probably determine the race. If there is no impact then Porsche wins.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by joeb

I agree, the wear in the heat will probably determine the race. If there is no impact then Porsche wins.

It's going to be an evening/night race, right? Not that the floodlights will give it away but ...

I'm not familiar with weather patterns in Texas but I would have thought it will be much cooler than during the day, to the extent that tyre wear isn't much of a concern. On the flip side, I can see Audi struggling to get heat in the front tyres come the last couple of stints.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by J Jay

It's going to be an evening/night race, right? Not that the floodlights will give it away but ...

I'm not familiar with weather patterns in Texas but I would have thought it will be much cooler than during the day, to the extent that tyre wear isn't much of a concern. On the flip side, I can see Audi struggling to get heat in the front tyres come the last couple of stints.

Forecast air temperature is 95F/35C at race start (about same as yesterday during qualifying), around 90F/32C 2.5hrs later at sunset and 79F/26C at race end.

Richard

[J Jay]

Cheers Richard. Well heat may be a lingering issue then, that's plenty warm throughout the race's length.

[chernaudi]

Yet another race where Audi have under performed. They'd better hope that the Tilkedromes go better for them, because this aero kit doesn't seem to be doing them any favors.

[Artur]

In the several long straights of Bahrain, Porsche will hammer Audi right on the head tbh

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Yet another race where Audi have under performed. They'd better hope that the Tilkedromes go better for them, because this aero kit doesn't seem to be doing them any favors.

This is probably the best that Audi could expect in the present circumstances. That was a decent performance IMHO. I am afraid that the performance advantage that Porsche have at the moment cannot be compensated with some aero tweaks.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Yet another race where Audi have under performed. They'd better hope that the Tilkedromes go better for them, because this aero kit doesn't seem to be doing them any favors.

Thats hardly an underperformance by Audi. Porsche has them beat on pace and fuel mileage. It doesn't all revolve around Audi having a good or bad day anymore. Porsche is taking the championship whether Audi is entered in the races or not.

[chernaudi]

Well then, why are Audi struggling to match Porsche's performance while Audi gave Porsche fits though Le Mans? Only change is that Audi are running a lower downforce package and Porsche are running a higher downforce package, and levels of downforce and drag are comparable considering top speeds and S1 and S3 times.

IMHO, Audi might have been better off at Nurburgring and COTA sacrificing some top speed to have better times in the downforce sectors. Also might have helped them double stint tires.

At least the remaining tracks are top speed friendly, especially Fuji and Shanghai.

[Starfish Primer]

But the wins at Spa and Silverstone where not so dominant as the Porsche wins at COTA and Nurburgring. In my opinion Porsche still has a reserve to improve their times.

[chernaudi]

You do have to remember that the #7 Audi should've won by nearly a minute at Silverstone if not for that penalty and if they had pitted under the yellow when other teams did.

Last night proved that the R18 has the lap time in it, but it's like with last year--it takes a lot more stars to align to get it out of the car. Ironically, last year's car carried way too much downforce for it's own good. This time around, I think that Audi at Nurburgring and COTA sacrificed downforce for top speed because of Silverstone and Spa where Porsche had a top speed advantage.

Granted, the move to 6MJ/battery hybrid and a more aggressive aero package should right the ship for next year, since Audi will have a new car while Porsche will have an evolution of their current car.

[Starfish Primer]

I think they are quite lost with the aero. I´m also surprised with Fassler´s problems when they tried double stinting.