differences in marshaling karts to cars

[gravel_monkey]

got asked th other day to do a day at three sisters for the karts. didnt end up going but think will definetly try it. anyone know what the main differences are to marshaling these nutters to car marshaling?

[ascarracinguk]

HAHA THOSE NUTTERS INCLUDE ME!!!!!!.....3 sisters is a great track....lots of oulton marshals are there when ive been racing!....good to know a kart track has so many good marshals...certainly reassures me when im racing.

in terms of marshalling its mainly flagging, there is very little to do incident wise, even if you get crashes/spins, its usually the driver that removes the kart, or if its kids, the pushers...ie parents on track tend to remove the kart. the only time marshals are called for incident wise is if someone is hurt or have rolled the kart and need it removing from on top of them! (apparently the guys at the weekend did a sterling job with a few kids that got injured)

other than that its driving standards observing...which is easier said than done!

the main difference between karts and cars is the close and fast nature of karting in comparison to cars, green flags are rarely shown after yellow flags because things happen so quickly, generally in karting (rightly or wrongly) once your past the incident then overtaking is fair game. also due to the closeness of the racing, spotting driving standard infringments (of which there are many, trust me!) are very difficult, certain things like bump drafting are ok, but deliberate 'binning' or bullying someone of track can happen too often and needs to be kept an eye on..

....it will shock you at how fast things happen in karting...certainly keeps you thinking!

[Hepatic]

if you go GM give me a shout. its not far from me and if i'm free i might join you too. always good to broaden the experience and keep them flag skills fresh.

[HairyDJ]

Give it a go when you get the chance - it's certainly different and not an event that lets you sit on the bank and just munch pork pies all day ....

Standards of driving & facilities out on track can vary greatly between circuits, as can radio discipline. My biggest gripe on radios is that all the admin, incident & gossip rattle around the same channel - common for "the office" to try asking a trivial (to us) question just as the rolling start is happening or as they all hammer into turn 1.

One problem you may find is the kart scene talk a lot of jargon - rotax / gearbox / TKM - all sorts of classes that blur into one another to a newbie. worth getting the gold book from the MSA site and looking for the appendix which lists classes and the colour combination of the number plates. BTW novices are white on black, rather than the cross we are used to looking for.

Karts tend to have a lot more tantrums - drivers, but mainly the parents! Also be prepared to find a tearful 8 year old sobbing on your post until race end - not for having stopped, but terrified of when dad arrives with the trolley.

Kit-wise, you might look for lighter gloves and I always bring ear defenders. It can be very exposed on post, so waterproof jackets to keep the wind out toward the end of the day. Sometimes I'm the only one in probans, but it's our uniform isn't it?

Flags are similar, but their version of a safety car is the old battenburg (black / yellow quarters); false start is a green with yellow diagonal V stripes. White is rarely used & even more rarely understood ....

Enjoy!

[Clive]

Main difference is cars generally are much bigger!

[Tom Bee]

You definitely need to get yourself to Three Sisters Andy, I first went in 06 and I have been going back ever since. You'll probably find that you'll be alot busier than at Oulton as it doesn't take longer for an incident to arise .

Like others have already said the only difference is really the flags, the incident side is done virtually the same way as track marshalling.

I don't know if anyone else noticed but I didnt see a single pusher all day at Three Sisters on Sunday?

[NewYankee01]

when i go kart marshalling, i always go flagging, its always a busy day, the incident guy only 1 runs upto every accident to make sure the driver stays behind the barrier and drags the kart to the far edge of the circuit, if he doesnt acknowledge the flaggies, theyll try and get it restarted because theyre kids mostly they would be happy to sit in the kart all race! most circuit laps can be done well under a minute in any class they come round a lot of unexperienced incident marshals get caught out so you need somebody good who doesnt just rely on the karters to get out, that means no matter what accident unless its fia the yellow flag goes out, chains snap off a lot of things fall off karts easily because most body work is plastic and big washers will only take so much before something gets ripped off, theres always loads of crashes a meeting so on some circuits its very rewarding. as a flaggie doing 6 kart days ive used red once, white twice, blue 5 green for incident about a dozen times and yellow more times than i can count, must be more than 25 now at least! i attract crashes

[The Fat Clerk]

So many things:
Bigger grids, more races, as one race leaves the circuit the next one enters, racing throughout the year - January to December none of this winter break nonsense, lots of overtaking, the chance to follow the career of competitors from 8 years old to F1, oh and some of the Mums are 'nice' as well

[HairyDJ]

Originally Posted by The Fat Clerk

... oh and some of the Mums are 'nice' as well

Puts a whole new spin on going to Steward 3 sisters

[The Fat Clerk]

Do you remenber that 70's song from Supertramp?
Dreamer you're nothing but a dreamer

[The Flagman]

Its hard on the knees as you simply don't get a break - as Fat Clerk says - one race stops another starts without delay the moment all debris is removed to the paddock.

Hairy DJ is spot on - best piece of extra kit to carry is a clean handkerchief as this mops up most tearful incidents.

Flagging is a bit different and requires greater anticipation. The circuit will have fewer posts so potentially a waved yellow preceded by a stationary closes down a larger proportion of the lap. Its kind of unfair to yellow then withdraw so thats why it tends to be ignored. Keep the yellow sharp around the incident. waved goes to stationary for a brief moment to give the stationary a chance to withdraw. Green stays out longer as more of the karts will have seen yellow.

Anything can happen - you are usually much closer to the track - they hurt when they bite your ankles. If assisting clearance always go for the pedals end of the kart - its much lighter. Always use gloves when touching a kart as they have lots of hot and nasty sticky out bits.

I prefer karts to circuit racing these days as the action is hotter the karts often finish a race as close as they are at the start and you will see future stars.

Expenses tend to be a bit more generous too and the organisers, drivers and parents genuinely seem to appreciate your efforts.

Well worth trying as karting is often short of marshals.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by The Flagman

Hairy DJ is spot on - best piece of extra kit to carry is a clean handkerchief as this mops up most tearful incidents.

i take exception to that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!....i come prepared and carry my own handkerchief for when i put it in the tyres LOL!!!!!.....actually cant remember the last time i crashed my kart......musnt be trying hard enough when aiming for the marshals!!!.....or more likely im scared theyll kill me next time im at oulton!

yeh i dont know where the pushers were on sunday, usually theyre out for the jnr classes....so ummm dunno!


by the way.....think we need a marshals endurance race after a meeting sumtime in the prokarts....be good to get the marshals on track to see what we see when racing....and its a good excuse to have a bit of a laff!..il start at the back if you like!

[paulnjulie]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

HAHA THOSE NUTTERS INCLUDE ME!!!!!!.....3 sisters is a great track....lots of oulton marshals are there when ive been racing!....good to know a kart track has so many good marshals...certainly reassures me when im racing.

in terms of marshalling its mainly flagging, there is very little to do incident wise, even if you get crashes/spins, its usually the driver that removes the kart, or if its kids, the pushers...ie parents on track tend to remove the kart. the only time marshals are called for incident wise is if someone is hurt or have rolled the kart and need it removing from on top of them! (apparently the guys at the weekend did a sterling job with a few kids that got injured)

other than that its driving standards observing...which is easier said than done!

the main difference between karts and cars is the close and fast nature of karting in comparison to cars, green flags are rarely shown after yellow flags because things happen so quickly, generally in karting (rightly or wrongly) once your past the incident then overtaking is fair game. also due to the closeness of the racing, spotting driving standard infringments (of which there are many, trust me!) are very difficult, certain things like bump drafting are ok, but deliberate 'binning' or bullying someone of track can happen too often and needs to be kept an eye on..

....it will shock you at how fast things happen in karting...certainly keeps you thinking!

i do oulton park and karts at 3 sisters i do the dummy grid cant think of you.. you must say hello next time

[paulnjulie]

Originally Posted by Tom Bee

You definitely need to get yourself to Three Sisters Andy, I first went in 06 and I have been going back ever since. You'll probably find that you'll be alot busier than at Oulton as it doesn't take longer for an incident to arise .

Like others have already said the only difference is really the flags, the incident side is done virtually the same way as track marshalling.

I don't know if anyone else noticed but I didnt see a single pusher all day at Three Sisters on Sunday?

they dont have the pushers out there anymore its a lot better
hello tom x

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by paulnjulie

i do oulton park and karts at 3 sisters i do the dummy grid cant think of you.. you must say hello next time

this be me!



not raced in tkm this year mind you..been doin the endurance racing at 3 sisters on tuesday nights instead....dont get the hormonal teenagers piling into turn 1 and all associated damage!...plus more track time for less money!

[Mark Noble]

Julie - you will know Adam when you see him! Yeah Grav, and anyone else who is interested, feel free to come down and try a day at 3 sisters - its usually the last sunday of each month, jan - november.


It is a lot faster than Oulton, and there's usually a lot more carnage, there is no 'quiet post'. As Adam mentioned, there was a huge accident on Saturday which resulted in a few injuries, but incidents on this scale are, thankfully, very rare, even at the karts.

So yeah, it's worth a try...

[ascarracinguk]

haha julie should recognise me...like i said im doing the endurance karting this year...racin with johnny elliot...got the 'FOR FRED' sticker with the bmmc logo on the front of the kart...

....was going soooo well last time...qually 3rd out of 35, running in the top 3 for the first hour with the works teams and european champs....then got clipped passing a backmarker and sent the front out of whack...cost us 10 laps in the pits...still got fastest lap so somethin worthwhile came from it!

[Tom Bee]

Originally Posted by paulnjulie

they dont have the pushers out there anymore its a lot better
hello tom x

Your right it is a lot better even if it does mean I am a bit busier.
Hello Julie x

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Tom Bee

Your right it is a lot better even if it does mean I am a bit busier.
Hello Julie x

Ya big girl.....try driving one...then youll know the meaning of bruises!!!...thank god for body armour!

[JimW]

I don't marshal karts unless I can be sure they are all orphans. The parents are the problem.

Long circuit races are fine since we usually have systems in place to keep parents well corralled and out of the way.

Regards

Jim

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by JimW

I don't marshal karts unless I can be sure they are all orphans. The parents are the problem.

haha aint that the truth!!!!...

[The Fat Clerk]

Tell you what, it's not only the Parents.
I was MSA Steward at Shennington a few years ago and a competitors Grandmother was using words that even I dont use

[Tom Bee]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

Ya big girl.....try driving one...then youll know the meaning of bruises!!!...thank god for body armour!

'Try driving one' - well whenever you want to lend me your kart for a day I will gladly get some extra bruises.

Feel free to PM me the time and place when you are going to let me drive this kart of yours.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Tom Bee

'Try driving one' - well whenever you want to lend me your kart for a day I will gladly get some extra bruises.

Feel free to PM me the time and place when you are going to let me drive this kart of yours.

haha if i had my old tkm id let ya!....its amazing how much grip and acceleration youve got....after about 10 mins ur arms would drop off....assuming you hadnt crashed first!!...i remember the first time i took her out a couple of years previously, haven driven my legend for a couple of years, thought it would be no problem....WRONG!!!!....scared my self to death they aint like hire karts, theyre 3 times quicker, have way more grip, brake a lot harder and you can carry so much speed through the corner its amazing....arms are about ready to drop off after 10 laps

[Bakersboy]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

....arms are about ready to drop off after 10 laps

I'll vouch for that! I had a 250 national back in the 80's, after one race I decided I needed to build some upper body strength and took up squash as well. Still got covered in bruises everytime but boy was it worth it! I have never driven anything in my life that accelerated, stopped and cornered as well and all just a couple of inches of the ground which magnifies everything! Happy days. Had to sell it to fund a wife.