V8 SuperTourers in NZ - 'Car Of Tomorrow'

[scuderus]

or.....

[GTRMagic]

Either way, the wing should work... or will do by the time it becomes mandated...

It would be funny if they discovered the new front splitter had more downforce than the V8SA design... a concept which has been in place for V8SA since the Project Blueprint concept formed.. and to balance the aero the ST rear wing had to have more rake to compensate...

Stranger things have happened of course...

[Just Do It!]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Sure, but it would still have to work technically. It cant be like the first VP aerokit TWR designed that worked better when it wasnt attached to the car

I think you will find that the "works better when not attached" concept dates back into the 1980's.

It was certainly true when Peter Brock ran Graeme Cameron....over a second a lap for memory in favour!

[brown dog]

I think it looks really good, and I am sure it will be effective too.

[DX20VT]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Either way, the wing should work... or will do by the time it becomes mandated...

It would be funny if they discovered the new front splitter had more downforce than the V8SA design... a concept which has been in place for V8SA since the Project Blueprint concept formed.. and to balance the aero the ST rear wing had to have more rake to compensate...

Stranger things have happened of course...

I think there is a lot more time spent in testing the V8SC splitters and wings to create parity between the ford and holden than there is in the actual search for total downforce.

and it needs to have as much downforce when in turbulant air following another car as it does when it's in free air on it's own,
otherwise it hinders passing opportunities as the following car cannot keep in behind close enough around the corners to allow for good racing.

[GTRMagic]

Whispers from the Hampton Downs test track today suggested there is plenty of pace in the new prototype with 'that' aerokit in the pic above. Grizzled veterans reported laptimes at or near the outright lap record in tintops on well used tyres, with virtually metronomic consistency...

Sounds like an improvement for the drivers if the car is that quick, and can seemingly look after its DTM-inspired Hankook rubber.

More testing to come of course, but seems a very good start!

[promax]

so what is the lap record for tin tops at HD? last year Nick Chester was in the 64's in his Super Duper V8 Supercar... no idea if he's the fastest tin top though.

[Biggy G]

Thought I could spot a faint Hankook logo on these:

[brown dog]

And sounds like they are already lapping Pukekohe on the same lap times as the V8SC's did. And this from Motorsport NZ, in case anybody was wondering how they felt about the whole scenario!

MotorSport New Zealand (MSNZ) has confirmed that the New Zealand V8s Championship, sponsored by nationwide automotive supplier BNT, will only be contested in cars that meet current MotorSport NZ championship technical regulations.

MotorSport New Zealand is aware of the present economic environment in the country and is concerned to ensure that team sponsors and fans understand the status of cars currently being developed," said MSNZ President Shayne Harris.

"There is confusion being created within the sport and beyond, by the development of a rival V8 class called V8 SuperTourers. From what has been made public about that car to date, it will not meet the MotorSport New Zealand championship technical regulations and will not be able to run at any championship meeting this season or beyond. I want to make it crystal clear that the BNTV8s championship will not be contested by those cars."""

"MotorSport New Zealand has been working with the team owners, who comprise NZV8s Ltd, in the development of a new championship car to contest the 2012-13 championship along with the current NZV8 car. This new car was shown at the recent Speed Show in Auckland.

"The sport is disappointed that such a split has developed within the V8 group, as those behind the SuperTourer project were initially entrusted with the job of developing the new MSNZ NZV8 championship car. There are legal issues surrounding the split, which will have to be resolved in due course. MotorSport NZ wants to make it very clear that any rumour in the industry that SuperTourers will be the premier class and in control of the championship series in the future are totally false and without any foundation."

"As the governing body, MotorSport New Zealand is keen to see developments in all areas of the sport, but we also recognise that we are a small country with limited economic resources. The commitment and investment of many sponsors such as BNT alongside our very successful programmes over the past decade have developed a raft of young competitors and technicians, who are now carrying the New Zealand flag on the international stage. "

"We look forward to seeing a great start to the BNTV8s and our premier championship series in five weeks' time."

[on_to_it]

[QUOTE=brown dog;2966338] "We look forward to seeing a great start to the BNTV8s and our premier championship series in five weeks' time. QUOTE]

It will be interesting to see how many are on the grid, and how many commit to the Challenge Cup support class to NZST.

[Biggy G]

What about the Supertourers means they won't meet Motorsport NZ Tech Regs?

[Mr Revhead]

Means they do not conform to the rules for any MSNZ sanctioned championship.

[Biggy G]

How though?

[Mr Revhead]

Sorry, I should have said they do not conform to the rules of the BNT V8s

[MarioNZ]

Originally Posted by Mr Revhead

Sorry, I should have said they do not conform to the rules of the BNT V8s

I wouldn't have thought that would have needed clarifying?

Struggling to understand the purpose of that press release from Motorsport NZ ... or why they're so anti supertourers . Isn't their job to support and assist the sport as a whole? Given so many of the 'top' people in the sport are backing the new deal, why not work with it?

The 'Sport' is disappointed?? have they actually engaged the race going/watching people to see what they think?

I can't even find a entry list of who is racing at the first round of the NZV8s in a few weeks so I can't say I have any motivation to rush out and and buy tickets, their website still lists all the drivers who have jumped to supertourers so it seems they have no problem to keep trading off the 'big names' whilst throwing thinly veiled PR mud at them.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Either way, the wing should work... or will do by the time it becomes mandated...

It would be funny if they discovered the new front splitter had more downforce than the V8SA design... a concept which has been in place for V8SA since the Project Blueprint concept formed.. and to balance the aero the ST rear wing had to have more rake to compensate...

Stranger things have happened of course...

Would be neither funny nor strange. The V8SA aero kit is quite low downforce (only 75kg on the front at 200kmh according to the info provided way back in the day) and is all about parity rather than outright performance. The V8SA philosophy is about closeness of performance, not building the fastest cars out there.

Not at all difficult to have more downforce than a V8SA car.

[St00ge]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Would be neither funny nor strange. The V8SA aero kit is quite low downforce (only 75kg on the front at 200kmh according to the info provided way back in the day) and is all about parity rather than outright performance. The V8SA philosophy is about closeness of performance, not building the fastest cars out there.

Not at all difficult to have more downforce than a V8SA car.

Hopefully they do with the new COTF

[buster01]

Originally Posted by St00ge

Hopefully they do with the new COTF

So why is down force so important?

[St00ge]

Originally Posted by buster01

So why is down force so important?

never said it was important.. just that a change up in the aero balance of that car might be a good thing; Might as well do that when you building a whole new mouse trap for the kids to play with as well

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by St00ge

never said it was important.. just that a change up in the aero balance of that car might be a good thing; Might as well do that when you building a whole new mouse trap for the kids to play with as well

And this mouse trap is damned serious. You have to give these guys credit for setting the bar at new heights. They have built a prototype for development purposes and they have made significant improvements to the point where the actual race chassis' they supply will be far better than the prototype. Throw in an awesome sound track and it will be a sight and sound to enjoy! Even the tyres are virtually the same price as the 17" rubber on a Swift!

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by buster01

So why is down force so important?

Just in case you are not either a race car driver, team owner or other interested party and you really do want to know what downforce is for, the more downforce you put on a car the faster you can go around corners - something discovered by Bruce McLaren back in the day if I am not mistaken? Makes a pretty big difference to your lap times!

But the downside to downforce is that you go slower in a straight line due to increased drag, so it's a balancing game and will change depending on the circuit you are on. Although it may be fixed for these cars?? Anyone??

[Mr Revhead]

Oh was understood long before Bruce!
I think maybe what you are referring to was when he found that cutting a hole in the front panel of one of his CAN-AM cars allowed the air going under the front an escape route he had more front downforce, or maybe less lift is a better way of putting it.

[DX20VT]

There is such a thing as too much downforce,

maybe not for laptimes,
but for good racing.

How good will the class be if the cars are so fast and good that they can stop on a dime and so there is no chance for outbraking,
and have so much downforce that you cant follow the car in front to close in or out of a corner as the turbulent air from the car in front upstes your down force.

No one wants to see a high speed xmas parade.

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by DX20VT

There is such a thing as too much downforce,

maybe not for laptimes,
but for good racing.

How good will the class be if the cars are so fast and good that they can stop on a dime and so there is no chance for outbraking,
and have so much downforce that you cant follow the car in front to close in or out of a corner as the turbulent air from the car in front upstes your down force.

No one wants to see a high speed xmas parade.

Hmmm, are you thinking of something like F1 DX?

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by MarioNZ

I wouldn't have thought that would have needed clarifying?

Struggling to understand the purpose of that press release from Motorsport NZ ... or why they're so anti supertourers . Isn't their job to support and assist the sport as a whole? Given so many of the 'top' people in the sport are backing the new deal, why not work with it?

The 'Sport' is disappointed?? have they actually engaged the race going/watching people to see what they think?

I can't even find a entry list of who is racing at the first round of the NZV8s in a few weeks so I can't say I have any motivation to rush out and and buy tickets, their website still lists all the drivers who have jumped to supertourers so it seems they have no problem to keep trading off the 'big names' whilst throwing thinly veiled PR mud at them.

Because it's all about money and power/control. And I don't blame anyone for that because you always want to protect what business and interests you have.

Just like what CAMS went through in Australia when V8SC came on the scene and got organized, MNZ wants to remain in control of the revenue streams and direction of the top tier of the sport, whether or not they do a good job of it(debatable).

I've always believed that the FIA, which is supposed to be a non profit, as well as it's national bodies, needs to focus on licensing, safety, marshalling and other administrative functions, of which it can or does get paid for, but it's best to leave actual categories of motorsport as private enterprise. I think when a national body of the FIA gets entangled in series management and other similar things it's a conflict of interest and it ends up taking sides, when in reality to do the job it needs to do, it needs to stay out of all that.

As I expected, this "split" has polarized people and the long term ramifications are unclear. Personally I have no issue with either series and will follow both.