USCC (leave your axe outside)

[MoMedic9019]

Still no code 60, still have the lap down wave by...

Just stupid.

[962]

All good changes that should alleviate most of the major race control problems that we've seen so far. Three driver/stewards in race control is awesome! Combined with driver accountability for mistakes like they had at Sebring I have to say I'm impressed with the changes.

[Canada ALMS fan]

We still have the NASCAR lucky dog wave-by nonsense at all races except Long Beach. The attitude and desire to throw yellows to bunch things up remains unchanged as the same folks are still calling the shots… If ones is not familiar with all the cars in the RACE and has to rely on numbers on a screen perhaps one should not be in RACE control...

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

We still have the NASCAR lucky dog wave-by nonsense at all races except Long Beach. The attitude and desire to throw yellows to bunch things up remains unchanged as the same folks are still calling the shots… If ones is not familiar with all the cars in the RACE and has to rely on numbers on a screen perhaps one should not be in RACE control...

Laguna Seca won't have them.

[Canada ALMS fan]

You get my drift, the cancerous philosophy of what meddling with the on track action and purity of the race remains unabated. To me this announcement shows a compromise reached by the two camps behind the scenes. There are those who insist on maintaining a "racing entertainment" attitude and meddling with the genuine flow and integrity of the races. This will leave the ill-will of the majority of the fans in tact and a resentment towards the series.

[Danske]

This free food is terrible and there's not enough of it!

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

We still have the NASCAR lucky dog wave-by nonsense at all races except Long Beach. The attitude and desire to throw yellows to bunch things up remains unchanged as the same folks are still calling the shots… If ones is not familiar with all the cars in the RACE and has to rely on numbers on a screen perhaps one should not be in RACE control...

I understand, and I PERSONALLY believe this new way should be adopted for any race under 6 hours, but that isn't happening.

[wdave0]

It will be better - only half the yellows will take a half hour. The competition will only be half as compromised, shows TUSCC only half gets it - but still a major improvement.

[Salamus]

Personally, I don't like this statement at all:

Efforts also will be made to use “Debris Yellows” where a situation is likely to involve the simple removal of debris or the flat-tow of a stopped car to a safe location. A Debris Yellow includes the Pass-Around procedure, but the pits remain closed until the race is restarted.

"Simple" removal of debris and stopped cars should only involve local yellows unless the debris or car is in a very dangerous position.

[wdave0]

Originally Posted by Salamus

Personally, I don't like this statement at all:



"Simple" removal of debris and stopped cars should only involve local yellows unless the debris or car is in a very dangerous position.

Equally sad is that this procedure was available at Daytona and Sebring and would have helped a lot but was unused - it took two disastrous races to remind them - and in fact a local or no yellow would often be even better. It seems to me that these yellow practices are based on oval racing standards.

[Matt]

They used a debris yellow at the end of Daytona, no?

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Salamus

Personally, I don't like this statement at all:



"Simple" removal of debris and stopped cars should only involve local yellows unless the debris or car is in a very dangerous position.

Pure fact. Again, Code 60 works just fine. Doesn't require a wave-around, or anything else.

Code 60-remove car or debris-green flag.

Should take no more than 5 minutes, I don't understand the aversion to this. The debris yellow does nothing but ditch the pit sequencing which takes little time. The wave-by is the worst of it. So instead of a 30min FCY, we now get 20min FCY...

That's a minimal improvement. In my eyes, it's equal.

[Salamus]

Originally Posted by Matt

They used a debris yellow at the end of Daytona, no?

Yes, they used a "debris" yellow. Too bad there was no debris or stalled car.

[EricS]

Originally Posted by Matt

They used a debris yellow at the end of Daytona, no?

Yes, else it would've finished under yellow since the pit sequence/ldwb takes so long.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

Pure fact. Again, Code 60 works just fine. Doesn't require a wave-around, or anything else.

Code 60-remove car or debris-green flag.

Should take no more than 5 minutes, I don't understand the aversion to this.

Lawyers. I wouldn't have expected a large rules change like the implementation of code-60 mid-season. Maybe it's something they will look at for next year.


So they have acknowledged that they have 'heard' the complaints. That really doesn't make any difference and everyone knew this statement was coming. We will have to see if there is a change in implementation and overall philosophy in race control.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

Lawyers. I wouldn't have expected a large rules change like the implementation of code-60 mid-season. Maybe it's something they will look at for next year.


So they have acknowledged that they have 'heard' the complaints. That really doesn't make any difference and everyone knew this statement was coming. We will have to see if there is a change in implementation and overall philosophy in race control.

Is it really that big of a rules change though? The pit limiters are already set to 60kph.

Elkins/Atherton have stated a billion times that Code 60 doesn't work for them, even in the ALMS days. They feel compelled to do the wave around, pit sequence, and green. There just is no need.

[Dodge_Swinger]

I definitely don't want to see anyone hurt at a car race, particularly corner workers or emergency responders. However, I think IMSA uses it as an excuse, just like NASCAR uses it as an excuse, to throw as many FCYs as they can get away with. FCYs are NOT just seen as a means to safely clear debris and/or vehicles off the track. It is seen as a way to bunch up the field, prevent cars from going a lap down and artificially create drama. NASCAR has openly stated that their fans absolutely LOVE restarts, which is beyond fine for NASCAR. Yellow flags are the way to create more restarts. The problem is this "one size fits all" mentality of NASCAR. Yes, there are many good,things ANY racing series can learn from NASCAR (like promotion of races), but not everything from NASCAR applies to every racing series.

That's why IMSA doesn't want to use Code 60. It doesn't bunch up the field, give back free laps and artificially create drama. There is ZERO chance of a car in any class at any TUSCC race winning a race by two or more laps over second place no matter how brilliant the drive, efficient the pit crew or genius the team manager. It will NOT be allowed to happen unless it's the only car in its class still running at the end of the race.

[jasonjessica09]

Originally Posted by Dodge_Swinger

I definitely don't want to see anyone hurt at a car race, particularly corner workers or emergency responders. However, I think IMSA uses it as an excuse, just like NASCAR uses it as an excuse, to throw as many FCYs as they can get away with. FCYs are NOT just seen as a means to safely clear debris and/or vehicles off the track. It is seen as a way to bunch up the field, prevent cars from going a lap down and artificially create drama. NASCAR has openly stated that their fans absolutely LOVE restarts, which is beyond fine for NASCAR. Yellow flags are the way to create more restarts. The problem is this "one size fits all" mentality of NASCAR. Yes, there are many good,things ANY racing series can learn from NASCAR (like promotion of races), but not everything from NASCAR applies to every racing series.

That's why IMSA doesn't want to use Code 60. It doesn't bunch up the field, give back free laps and artificially create drama. There is ZERO chance of a car in any class at any TUSCC race winning a race by two or more laps over second place no matter how brilliant the drive, efficient the pit crew or genius the team manager. It will NOT be allowed to happen unless it's the only car in its class still running at the end of the race.

The talk about having code 60 in TUSK is like Promotion/relegation in Major League soccer. Which is: a cool european concept that is not going to be implemented in America any time soon.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

Is it really that big of a rules change though? The pit limiters are already set to 60kph.

Elkins/Atherton have stated a billion times that Code 60 doesn't work for them, even in the ALMS days. They feel compelled to do the wave around, pit sequence, and green. There just is no need.

Maybe I'm jaded because I've been dealing with lawyers all week but yes. My apologies to any poster that happens to be a lawyer, but, hey, I'm a contractor so I'll buy you a beer in hell.

I haven't put much thought into this, but what about increasing the speed of the safety car?

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by BullMan

And the green flew and they had to fuel the car, THEN change tires, thereby negating most, if not all of an advantage they gained.

Right, that's why so many laps were not regained using the process.






L.P.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by 962

All good changes that should alleviate most of the major race control problems that we've seen so far. Three driver/stewards in race control is awesome! Combined with driver accountability for mistakes like they had at Sebring I have to say I'm impressed with the changes.

I think that they certainly are positive adjustments.







L.P.

[seanyb505]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

I haven't put much thought into this, but what about increasing the speed of the safety car?

LDWB would take more time. To exaggerate, how long would it take a LD to catch up to the field if they were stopped vs. the amount of time it would take the LD to catch up to the field if there was no FCY? Roughly the time for one lap vs. they wouldn't catch up because they are a lap down....And should stay there without external aid.

[nkoske]

Not sure why at the split races they can't just pit all cars on the same lap. Pit lane should surely be able to hold 30 cars at most tracks.

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by nkoske

Not sure why at the split races they can't just pit all cars on the same lap. Pit lane should surely be able to hold 30 cars at most tracks.

In general I'd say that they like to have the procedures consistent between rounds to keep people (drivers, teams, and officials) from screwing up. However, I don't disagree with you..

-mike

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund

In general I'd say that they like to have the procedures consistent between rounds to keep people (drivers, teams, and officials) from screwing up. However, I don't disagree with you..

-mike

How hard is it in the drivers meeting to say...

"...There is no split pit procedure, you can all enter when pits open..."

Maybe I'm just an idiot, but, I feel like things are just way, way too complicated sometimes.