USCC (leave your axe outside)

[Danathar]

Originally Posted by Rcz

I hate BOPing cars down, especial prototypes.

Just BOP the P2s up.

The only thing that you could do the P2's is let them use better tires. The engine and aero package is standard ACO spec.

[Maelochs]

We all hate to see race cars made slower. Thing is, there probably isn't a lot more to be had from the P2 engines, and probably not a lot of weight which could be stripped off.

Let us all remember that P2s were Considerably faster than DPs before DPs were cranked up (at huge expense.) Trying to now boost the P2s would only cost even more money and it would be to compensate for overdoing the DPs.

Backing off the DP power by 50 bhp wouldn't make them a Lot slower---and it would still leave them about 100 bhp over where they were in Rolex.

It is by far the cheapest and simplest solution. And it would still leave DPs monumentally faster than they were last year.

All of this goes back to TUSC management not being willing to line up a P2 and DP for serious side-by-side testing back last summer or fall. That's the part that really rankles. if TUSC had taken this series as seriously as the fans and teams do, all the BoP adjustments could have been right from the start, and we wouldn't be having this four-month debate.

Oh, well.

[Starfish Primer]

If I´m not wrong recently the only US LMP teams who made Le Mans were Highcroft, Level 5 and Starworks. None of them contest the WEC or have been at Le Mans consistently.

Maybe the question is if it is worth to keep the P2s in TUSCC for a what if scenario. I´m not a big DP fan, but maybe is the time to ditch the P2 at TUSCC.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by Starfish Primer

If I´m not wrong recently the only US LMP teams who made Le Mans were Highcroft, Level 5 and Starworks. None of them contest the WEC or have been at Le Mans consistently.

Maybe the question is if it is worth to keep the P2s in TUSCC for a what if scenario. I´m not a big DP fan, but maybe is the time to ditch the P2 at TUSCC.

It's a fair statement but not one that, at least around here, anyone wants to hear.

We need the revised P2 regulations from the ACO, or freeze the existing ones, as soon as possible. TUSCC needs to move towards the ELMS model as quickly as possible.

[Holt]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

We all hate to see race cars made slower. Thing is, there probably isn't a lot more to be had from the P2 engines, and probably not a lot of weight which could be stripped off.

Let us all remember that P2s were Considerably faster than DPs before DPs were cranked up (at huge expense.) Trying to now boost the P2s would only cost even more money and it would be to compensate for overdoing the DPs.

Backing off the DP power by 50 bhp wouldn't make them a Lot slower---and it would still leave them about 100 bhp over where they were in Rolex.

It is by far the cheapest and simplest solution. And it would still leave DPs monumentally faster than they were last year.

All of this goes back to TUSC management not being willing to line up a P2 and DP for serious side-by-side testing back last summer or fall. That's the part that really rankles. if TUSC had taken this series as seriously as the fans and teams do, all the BoP adjustments could have been right from the start, and we wouldn't be having this four-month debate.

Oh, well.

Wouldnt 50 HP be worth almost a second over a standard 90 second lap? Are P2s really that far off outside of Daytona?

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Grand Am had big events, NASCAR money, and TV..... and no real fanbase.

There is no reason to believe Grand Am 2.0 will be any different, as nothing much has changed.

They have all the big events now. Daytona, Sebring, Petit. And the best GT battle in the world. Its only been 3 races, and there has been changes from top to bottom along the way

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Holt

And the best GT battle in the world.

Here today, gone tomorrow... a number of unhappy entrants...

GT goes, and really it just is Grand Am.

[belt driven]

It’s hard to blame IMSA for the loss of Level 5. Rumors abound of Tucker pricing himself out of rental drivers. The loss of his brother (for which I have sympathy) or his legal problems (for which I have NONE) are more likely reasons.

I also have little sympathy for Pickett. Whatever the truth to rumors of other deals he was working on; the fact is they never turned a P2 lap until the ROAR. They still managed to qualify fastest and finish best of the P2s at Daytona, and qualified at Sebring between the ESM cars. Except for invitational races (Sebring/Petit), the last few years taking the green would get them a podium. That hasn’t happened, so they quit. C-ya bye.

In the shaky years of IMSA (post Bishop, pre doc Panoz), there were some LM class “invitational” entries at Daytona. In 1991 3 LM R90CKs were entered by Nissan Performance Technology, aka Electromotive, the US “factory” team. Driven by known and/or popular drivers, they finished 2nd (-18 laps), 20th, and 44th.

It backfired on IMSA the next year. An LM class R91CP entered by Nissan Motorsports International, the real factory team, ran away and hid. I mean that literally, because they parked the car in the garage for 3 hours. They replaced damaged bodywork, washed the car, and brought it back out for the final 20 minutes to circulate laps and take the checker. The official margin was 9 laps and the distance was not matched for 20 years. In those days of qualifying tires and adjustable boost, it was normal to see cars qualify many seconds faster than they ran in the race. This car ran race laps within 2 seconds of their qualifying time so there were strong suspicions of sandbagging. It was an extremely unpopular win. Everybody knew the car was not IMSA legal and was ineligible for points. There were more people booing than there were waving on the cooldown lap.

I would bet Nascar remembers that race. The success or failure of WEC P2 may have a bearing on 2017 IMSA rules but, unless factories offer (and teams buy) customer cars; I wouldn’t look for P1s at an IMSA event for a long time.

[Danske]

Originally Posted by Holt

Wouldnt 50 HP be worth almost a second over a standard 90 second lap? Are P2s really that far off outside of Daytona?

Going by the timing data at Long Beach, Oak was less than 4mph down at start/finish to the fastest DPs, losing about 0.3-0.4s down the front straight, and were then about equal or making up 0.1s on the rest of the circuit, or theresabouts. ESM was apparently killing it through turns 9&10 and faster than Oak there, but losing a tenth to them on the front straight. Oak's strongest sector was around the fountain. Oddly, the Taylor DP was tremendous from pit-out to turn 1. They were only up ~1mph to Oak at S/F, and also fast for a DP in 9&10, so I'm going to assume they had the downforce piled on.

[wdave0]

I think the two classes are closer in raw lap time than they are in raceability. The real issue with the DPs is just grunt, shows up numerically as top speed but is really acceleration off a corner or recovery from a balk or lift in traffic. I suspect 50hp would prove too much of a laptime hit, 25 might get closer but they will always be hard for a P2 to pass and stay past if DPs are capable of near the same lap times. A lot of green running would be an equalizer too but not quite enough under the current BOP and as yet I have little faith that it will be a regular occurrence.

[CyberMotor]

2008, the year the bottom dropped out of the international markets. The pinnacle of the ALMS...

http://www.lasersol.com/CyberMotor/p...2008_tues.html

[FLGTFAN]

I'm guessing that Pickett/Graf/Luhr did not want to chase around DP's and end up with 5th place finishes. Given what they have ALL achieved, why write a chapter of mediocrity to go along with it?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by belt driven

It backfired on IMSA the next year. An LM class R91CP entered by Nissan Motorsports International, the real factory team, ran away and hid. I mean that literally, because they parked the car in the garage for 3 hours. They replaced damaged bodywork, washed the car, and brought it back out for the final 20 minutes to circulate laps and take the checker. The official margin was 9 laps and the distance was not matched for 20 years. In those days of qualifying tires and adjustable boost, it was normal to see cars qualify many seconds faster than they ran in the race. This car ran race laps within 2 seconds of their qualifying time so there were strong suspicions of sandbagging. It was an extremely unpopular win. Everybody knew the car was not IMSA legal and was ineligible for points. There were more people booing than there were waving on the cooldown lap.

If they hadn't done the long stop...how many laps ahead would they have finished?

[CyberMotor]

No, don't decrease the HP of the DP's, just decrease their fuel cell size by 25%.

That way, fans still get to see the power of the DP's and get to see how teams strategize to get the most out of their fuel allocation.

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by CyberMotor

No, don't decrease the HP of the DP's, just decrease their fuel cell size by 25%.

That way, fans still get to see the power of the DP's and get to see how teams strategize to get the most out of their fuel allocation.

That would work, but will those DP teams, especially Gannasi, agree to reduce their fuel allocation? That's up to the IMSA to convince them which will not happen right away.

[canciaro]

Originally Posted by CyberMotor

No, don't decrease the HP of the DP's, just decrease their fuel cell size by 25%.

That way, fans still get to see the power of the DP's and get to see how teams strategize to get the most out of their fuel allocation.

So when the race director throws a full course debris caution with 20 mins to go and the race goes green with 5 mins left that fuel strategy will make up for the DPs extra HP right....yeah makes total sense..




Series is screwed, Im sorry, I really havent paid as much attention as I did before. Mediocre mess of cars ruining the GTLM class and Prototypes while accepted throughout the world are absolutely BONED in the US.

[KA]

Something tucked away in John Dagys' Thursday notes from the Silverstone WEC round:


"At least one current TUDOR United SportsCar Championship team is evaluating the possibility of a switch to the FIA WEC for next year."

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/s...sday-notebook/

[wdave0]

Originally Posted by KA

Something tucked away in John Dagys' Thursday notes from the Silverstone WEC round:


"At least one current TUDOR United SportsCar Championship team is evaluating the possibility of a switch to the FIA WEC for next year."

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/s...sday-notebook/

Good reason for Pickett to hold on to his drivers.

[ttdriver2009]

If Pickett goes to the WEC, will he run in P1 or P2? I'd like to see P1 since they did so well against the best of the best in the ALMS for P1.

[wdave0]

Originally Posted by ttdriver2009

If Pickett goes to the WEC, will he run in P1 or P2? I'd like to see P1 since they did so well against the best of the best in the ALMS for P1.

Who knows? He does own a currently viable P2 and his P1 is obsolete.

[CyberMotor]

Originally Posted by KA

Something tucked away in John Dagys' Thursday notes from the Silverstone WEC round:


"At least one current TUDOR United SportsCar Championship team is evaluating the possibility of a switch to the FIA WEC for next year."

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/s...sday-notebook/

And, in the same notes... "***More than 450 journalists are accredited for the FIA WEC/ELMS doubleheader, with weekend ticket sales having already surpassed last year’s total number, according to Neveu."

Good to see growth in sportscars somewhere. Wish it was here.

[wewantourdarbyback]

I don't know whether that's the expansion of the series or just them being more lax about giving accreditation out...


They've even given me one.

[belt driven]

Originally Posted by FLGTFAN

...Given what they have ALL achieved, why write a chapter of mediocrity to go along with it?

Originally Posted by ttdriver2009

...since they did so well against the best of the best in the ALMS for P1.

In consideration of the depth of competition in ALMS P1 the last 2 years...

“Hey Vern, it’s like bobbing for water. You can’t lose!” ---Jim Varney, aka Ernest P. Worrell 1949-2000

“We came in second. You came in next to last.” ---Soviet commentary on the race to the moon

[Maelochs]

Enzo Potolicchio tells Shaw and Hindy that TUSC knows it has a BoP problem and is planning to make changes?


Could be good news. If TUSC makes changes, we could see the 8Star Ligier full-time in TUSC--and maybe more P2s.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by belt driven

I also have little sympathy for Pickett. Whatever the truth to rumors of other deals he was working on; the fact is they never turned a P2 lap until the ROAR. They still managed to qualify fastest and finish best of the P2s at Daytona, and qualified at Sebring between the ESM cars. Except for invitational races (Sebring/Petit), the last few years taking the green would get them a podium. That hasn’t happened, so they quit. C-ya bye.

Insinuating that MMPR was not willing to work for podiums and victories is a load of crap. They want to know if they execute a perfect race, they have a shot at victory.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

They want to know if they execute a perfect race, they have a shot at victory.

Playing the devil's advocate here, but: Should they?

MMPR is by no means a bad team, but they are up against Ganassi, - and I am not even a fan of the Chipster or Pruett - but that's an organisation every bit as good as Penske or Joest.

Pickett accepted not being able to beat Joest under anything but the very best of circumstances, why should he then expect anything different against Ganassi?