Audi LMP1 Discussion

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Adam43

750kg? It could race in the 1930s GP!

Originally Posted by manthey

ok f1 have less weight but consider that spa pole lmp1 was not so distant from the time of the last(slowest) F1 car

It is irrelevant, but the LMP car is some way off current F1. That wasn't my point - I don't troll forums bashing race series I'm not interested in. My reference was to 1930s GP racing battles between Auto Union and Mercedes-Benz. There was a maximum 750kg weight limit then and the value reminded me of this. It is a mildly interesting distraction to think that these cars could, in theory, race in that. Throw in the Audi connection and it just made me think of it. And they would destroy the laptime at Spa!

[Articus]

Originally Posted by henk4

no, it makes a terrible noise, the worst sounding of all GT cars.

really? I think it sounds the best of all the GT cars..

[gwyllion]

Interesting comments from Christopher Reinke in the latest RCE edition:

We had to make the car much lighter weight than the previous car because of the weight of the hybrid system, with a big saving coming at the rear with a carbon fibre gearbox casing. The weight distribution is right though, and that's why we went for a front axle-drive philosophy. Where we have put the motor at the front is exactly where we put the ballast anyway on the non-hybrid car. We are even using the same mounting points for the ballast as we do with the electric motor.

source: http://gb.zinio.com/reader.jsp?issn=0961-1096&p=10

We looked at the front tyres and we assume that tyre life will be shorter than on the non-hybrid car, but not everything has been calculated yet. Both Ultra (2WD) and Quattro (4WD) run the same tyres all round. To be honest, we do not really know what the results will be yet.

source: http://gb.zinio.com/reader.jsp?issn=0961-1096&p=12

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

The article also explains how Audi reduced the weight of the R18 during the winter. The 2011 R18 weighed 850 kg and the 2012 R18 ultra only 750 kg! 30 kg was saved with the carbon gearbox casing, 15 kg on the engine, turbo and cooling, and 40 kg on the chassis, bodywork and suspension. The hybrid system weighs less than 100 kg.

So in the e-tron quattro they still have around 50 kg of ballast, whereas in the ultra they can position 140 kg of ballast!

The article in the latest RCE edition gives slightly different numbers for the weight saving than the AMS article: 85 kg in total, including 30 kg from the turbocharger, 10 kg from the bodywork, another big chunk by the carbon gearbox casing, and a bit in the all-new monocoque which is also stiffer than last year. Personally I find this 30 kg in the turbocharger hard to believe...

Another interesting comment by Ralf Jüttner regarding both R18 versions:

Consumption of the Ultra cars was higher than I expected from the values I saw on the telemetry, but then in the Quattro you have guys like Tom, who is our master fuel conversing anyway. With the Ultra you can place ballast much better, so it is purely old fashioned motorsport - center of gravity and better weight distribution.

source: http://gb.zinio.com/reader.jsp?issn=0961-1096&p=16

[alexkiller8]

wasn't 904kg heavy the e-tron during spa event?

[gwyllion]

A new promotional video on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FyQQmKKxsM

[deggis]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

A new promotional video on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FyQQmKKxsM

Haha @ 1:00 - where does that sound come from? Certainly not from the R18.

That shows the downside of diesel in marketing sense.

Ask Peugeot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgU7A0BFR2M

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Paul also had a look at the timing data. He concludes that Audi can do longer and faster stints than last year.

source: http://trussers.blogspot.com/2012/06...less-fuel.html

Paul has written a longer analysis for DSC subscribers: http://www.dailysportscar.com/viewAr...F985A1BD5DEB2D

Can anyone summarize his findings?

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Paul has written a longer analysis for DSC subscribers: http://www.dailysportscar.com/viewAr...F985A1BD5DEB2D

Can anyone summarize his findings?

One of the Audi stints during the test day saw an average lap time of 3:31.5 with a fastest laptime of 3:27 on a track that still had moisture on it; short summary of the Audi-related part - the 2012 cars are a significant step forward, and Trussers' pole prediction is a 3:22. Toyota are slower than Audi but not "embarrassingly slower", and the other petrol runners are round about where they were last year (both on pace and on fuel consumption).

[gwyllion]

Cool. I also calculated that Lotterer did stint in the afternoon with an average lap time of 3:31.5. See http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...58#post3085558

[henk4]

what Audi still needs to control is the "visible smoke", I got a shot of the Ultra departing from the LM pit lane for his very first lap, and there is lots of blue stuff coming from the exhausts.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by henk4

what Audi still needs to control is the "visible smoke", I got a shot of the Ultra departing from the LM pit lane for his very first lap, and there is lots of blue stuff coming from the exhausts.

Why Audi needs to control it since ACO keeps ignoring the rule?

[Creep89]

The Pugs were smoking too, but not as heavy as the R18 does.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Creep89

The Pugs were smoking too, but not as heavy as the R18 does.

The old 908 was the heavier smoker in 2010 actually, with the side-exit exhausts it was clearly visible on the rear tires, after a stint and a half you couldn't see the markings on the rear tires because of the diesel soot; the roles were reversed last year.

[Ultimo]

Originally Posted by henk4

no, it makes a terrible noise, the worst sounding of all GT cars.

... and the best?

[manthey]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Qualifying in F1 last year was in wet conditions Only Q3 was sort of dry. See http://www.formula1.com/news/headlin...1/8/12451.html

The F1 pole was 1:48.298 (Vettel) and the fastest race lap 1:49.883 (Webber).

That is still a lot quicker than the LMP1 pole of McNish (2:01.579).

I remember in january I did some data comparison and the slowest f1 car was 6-8 faster than lmp1 pole (I don't remember if 2011 1000km vs 2010 spa f1)

[Creep89]

Originally Posted by Ultimo

... and the best?

The Vette does have the best sound.. But wrong thread I think.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Creep89

The Vette does have the best sound.. But wrong thread I think.

I think its better to just conclude that all cars have the best sound. I've realized that some people take to the low rumble of the Vette and others like me hate the sound of the vette. Thenres theres guys like me who love the higher pitched whailing of the Ferrari, BMW and others who hate that kind of sound. We'll never agree haha. So prehaps they all sound good. Were just tuned biologically to like different sounds!

[henk4]

Originally Posted by deggis

Why Audi needs to control it since ACO keeps ignoring the rule?

with Peugeot gone, a protest from other competitors may not be so easily ignored.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by deggis

Haha @ 1:00 - where does that sound come from? Certainly not from the R18.

That shows the downside of diesel in marketing sense.

Ask Peugeot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgU7A0BFR2M

oh man that is god awful...horrific sounds...


But this isnt only Peugeot/Audi...Acura's ARX-02a had one commercial where it left the pits at Sebring an this thing sounded like a Nascar!!

Ont sure what was wrong with the actually engine note...

[henk4]

Originally Posted by deggis

Haha @ 1:00 - where does that sound come from? Certainly not from the R18.

That shows the downside of diesel in marketing sense.

Ask Peugeot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgU7A0BFR2M

you mean the virtual silence? That's a benefit to my ears at least...fortunately we have to wear helmets in the pitlane now, so the noise is not so deafening anymore

[deggis]

Originally Posted by henk4

you mean the virtual silence? That's a benefit to my ears at least...fortunately we have to wear helmets in the pitlane now, so the noise is not so deafening anymore

That misses my point... "in marketing sense".

You also see this in many highlights videos etc. made by ACO for example. Audi or Peugeot flies by, but sound is from another car.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by deggis

That misses my point... "in marketing sense".

You also see this in many highlights videos etc. made by ACO for example. Audi or Peugeot flies by, but sound is from another car.

diesel in a marketing sense means suppressing the impression that it is loud and sounds like a tractor. If you produce a zffff noise when the racecar passes by, it does not sound like a tractor (and yes, I drive a diesel as my daily transport, and I like it to be quiet; you may have actually had a ride in it, IIRC).

[deggis]

Originally Posted by henk4

diesel in a marketing sense means suppressing the impression that it is loud and sounds like a tractor.If you produce a zffff noise when the racecar passes by, it does not sound like a tractor

But when they want to make the typical racecar wow effect with loud noise, they can't and then they have to use big block V8 sound like in this video in question. It is hilarious.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by deggis

But when they want to make the typical racecar wow effect with loud noise, they can't and then they have to use big block V8 sound like in this video in question. It is hilarious.

motor racing is hilarious and not to be taken seriously at all...