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Old 4 Nov 2005, 15:25 (Ref:1452126)   #1
Frank_White
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Frank_White should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think that its safe to say Great Britian wont be winning the A1 GP title!

In the spirit of the A1GP concept I think that its time to give other British drivers a go.

Lets start out with Alex Lloyd . Robbie Kerr has been racing all previous rounds and he hasn't won yet. From all appearances he certainly wont be winning this round either.

Considering the wealth of driving talent that GB has I think that its silly not to have a proper go at it.
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Old 4 Nov 2005, 15:46 (Ref:1452136)   #2
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From what Mr Jinxx has said, there may be other factors, but I'd agree with most of that. The problem is that Alex is not even a nominated reserve driver this weekend and he must desperately need some time in the car (or any decent single-seater) to get rid of the rust.
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Old 4 Nov 2005, 15:58 (Ref:1452143)   #3
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GB won't win cos the points system is screwed. Team GBR has lost at least 15 have been lost through mechanical failures or erratic Americans; it is highly unlikely that anyone could make 15 up on France, if they don't retire you're looking at having to win and at least 3 cars beat them to catch up in 4 separate races. And then you only catch up a point or 2 on those other teams.
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Old 4 Nov 2005, 16:21 (Ref:1452164)   #4
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Mr Jinxx should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
foxy is dead right, there are other factors. Robbie is the only driver there, this weekend.

It's a bit chicken-and-egg-ish. Because Robbie hasn't been on the pace yet, it makes sense to keep him in the car as long as possible, so he can get the time in the seat, and give the right feedback to the team. If the pace still isn't there, then the problem is with the driver, the team, or the interaction.

Scientifically, you keep a constant and change one thing at a time to narrow it down, but because Alex hasn't had any time in the seat (or any seat) it will take a little time for him to get relaxed into it. As foxy said, he'll be rusty as blazes. Time in the seat means so much. But you aren't going to want to do that until you decide the Championship hope with Robbie has evaporated, and it's a bit early to think like that yet.

The driver is the easiest one to change first, as opposed to the team/engineer, but by not giving the other driver any time in the car, you rather shoot yourself in the foot, if you are looking for an instant fix. I'm sure they'll just stick at what they're doing, and hope it all comes together, even if it's just the monkeys and typewriters syndrome! Which it obviously isn't. If anyone should know this car, its Arden, and we know Robbie can drive.

Once Robbie is on the pace, then you know the car's right, and then you can see if a different driver can go even quicker.

The trick with a driver, apart from just being a quick driver, is that he/she needs to be realxed into the job, and the feedback needs to be clear and consistent. Consistent with the data, I mean, which for many drivers is not strictly the case. It also needs to fit the car's characteristics. No good a driver trying to make an A1GP car handle like a touring car, for example. You'd go the wrong route and never get consistently on the pace.

So, without any time in the car, Alex would be unlikely to make an immediate difference to the way Robbie is going with the car, even though he would almost certainly prefer the car to be set up differently. You'd be taking two steps back immediately. If I was the team owner, I'd be very reticent to start again with a different driver, especially one who hasn't raced more than a handful of races in two years. There's a lot of prize money at stake, and money isn't too easy to come by.

What it ideally needs is for the 2nd cars all to be ready, and then for the series organisers to allow one just car from each country out in testing at any one time. That means that Alex could go and do 5 laps, come in for changes, Robbie could go out in the meantime and do 5, etc etc. That then gives you direct comparisons, data, times and setups, progressions, and would get us on the pace much quicker. The track would be busy of course, but it's only testing - you take each corner as it comes, and a clear lap is a bonus.

However, I understand this isn't likely to happen, so the next best thing is to do what Australia appear to be doing - give each driver a one-hour test session, then the quickest does the event. Whilst that would be Robbie for probably 3 races, it would give Alex 3 test sessions in the car, by which time he should be pretty much up to speed, and you have his feedback then to aid the team. If he's quicker, then he races. If he isn't, he keeps testing until he is. Meantime, the data will be hugely valuable. Win-win.
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Old 4 Nov 2005, 16:38 (Ref:1452178)   #5
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That type of talk must play hell on Alex's confidence.

I dont believe for a second that a young Senna would'nt get in the GB car and beat or at least equal Robbie Kerr.

The reality is that Robbie is not on the ultimate pace. The cars are designed to be very similar and someone else deserves a chance.

And if Alex doesnt have enough faith in himself to equal or beat Robbie then he should'nt even be there. Surely there are other drivers who wont push an excuse of "i'm rusty". I consider such excuses claptrap.
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Old 4 Nov 2005, 17:16 (Ref:1452208)   #6
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I thought Robbie was somewhat on the pace, e.g. unlucky not to win at Brands, last to 2nd in Germany, at the sharp end in the first race - all without much in the way of single seater experience lately.
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Old 4 Nov 2005, 17:36 (Ref:1452222)   #7
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Holland will also not win the title so you are not alone....
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Old 4 Nov 2005, 17:40 (Ref:1452226)   #8
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Robbie has done some F3 testing this year and won a Euro F3000 race at Lausitz as part of his preparation. Obviously he knew Brands well, so that took care of the first two meetings. Let's see what happens this weekend.
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Old 4 Nov 2005, 18:11 (Ref:1452253)   #9
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Mr Jinxx should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I don't think it's Alex who is pushing the "rusty" excuse button, Frank. I'm sure he thinks that he could get up to speed fairly quickly, and be quicker than Robbie - that's how drivers think. But those bare facts (i.e. being rusty) would suggest, however, that it would be unlikely to happen straight away. Not a confidence-sapper, just in all probablility true. How long has Robbie had in the car now? He was rusty too, to start with.

But anyway, it isn't Alex's decision. He's desperate to get a few races, obviously, but you have to think what you'd do if you were the team owners, and were looking to go forward. It would be logical to stick with Robbie and keep trying to get him on the pace, for a certain length of time at least. For how long? That I don't know. You have to think Bryan Herta should be up to speed generally, but in two one-hour test sessions, he's not up there either. My point is simply that it takes time, and we're already a quarter of the way through the championship. That's nothing to do with Alex and his abilities or otherwise. My own particular rule of thumb (based on no hard evidence really) is that it takes a rusty driver 3 races to get on the ultimate pace.

I do agree with you about the Senna thing though. It wouldn't have taken him too long, rusty or not, to get up to a very rapid speed, I'm sure, and to develop the car the way it should be. But he was the very best. And we'll never be able to put it to the test.
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Old 5 Nov 2005, 14:57 (Ref:1452811)   #10
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Kicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Good job in qualifying there
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Old 5 Nov 2005, 15:10 (Ref:1452821)   #11
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It did cross my mind that there'sa certain Darren Manning who's not overly busy at the moment...
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Old 5 Nov 2005, 15:11 (Ref:1452822)   #12
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SALEEN S7R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSALEEN S7R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSALEEN S7R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Yeah not a bad job from Kerr, take nothing away from him he is a good driver. Probably not the best the UK has available though IMO, someone like Paffet or Green or Hamilton would IMO do a better job than Kerr has managed this year. Give Kerr the rest of the season, if he improves and wins a couple of races then maybe its worth hanging onto him, if he doesent however then IMO its probably time to start looking around for another driver. Guys like Paffet, Green and Hamilton have better pedigrees than Kerr. IMO.
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Old 5 Nov 2005, 15:20 (Ref:1452825)   #13
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Kicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
If we look at it, the only poor performance was Estoril qualifying
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Old 5 Nov 2005, 15:35 (Ref:1452831)   #14
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SALEEN S7R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSALEEN S7R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSALEEN S7R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I agree KB, but I just cant help but think that someone like Hamilton, Green or Paffet might have already won races this year had they been in the car. Team GB is after all being run by Arden, now im not saying that alone should automatically mean race wins, but a crack team like Arden combined with our best drivers should do. IMO.
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Old 5 Nov 2005, 15:43 (Ref:1452833)   #15
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Kicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Brands - could have won if not for battery problem

Germany - could have won if not for 1st corner pile up - charged from back to 2nd in feature

Portugal - disaster


Robbie has done better than the results suggest
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Old 5 Nov 2005, 15:46 (Ref:1452834)   #16
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SALEEN S7R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSALEEN S7R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSALEEN S7R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Yes but the German round team GB did much better than we should have, why? Pitstops, Arden managed to get the tyre changes done much better than the vast majority of everyone else. Yes Kerr drove well, but make no mistake, the quick pitstop by the Arden squad and the slow ones by most of the other teams are what gained Kerr so many places.
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Old 5 Nov 2005, 17:20 (Ref:1452889)   #17
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Actually, the measure should be the lap times. Ignore the results that catapulted GB up because of pitstops, and ignore the bad results which were due to unfortunate incidents. That's racing, as tiresome folk are wont to say. But the underlying speed is what to concentrate on. And GB are still 5 or 6 tenths off the pace, I think, always have been. That would put us around 5th 6th place on merit, mwhich is probably where we deserve to be at the moment, not down in 9th.

But, ignoring Arden's fabulous pit stops (no-one could touch them in GP2 or F3000 either) it's a testimony to Robbie's driving that he can achieve consistency where others fail. Sean McIntosh for Canada is an example in point - fastest lap 1:18.8. Next fastest 1:19.7. Robbie posts a 1:19.0 and a 1:19.0. You can't really argue with that. Like Ralph Schumacher in F1. It's that sort of ability that can make up a lot of places in a race. That's a good effort by Robbie and the team in anyone's books. And Robbie is claiming he's finally happy with the car balance now, so I think you can expect increasing confidence from him as the season continues, and thus he'll get closer to the pace now.
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Old 5 Nov 2005, 17:42 (Ref:1452904)   #18
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Rockfan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I do think Rob Kerr has now got show he should be in the seat. I personally believe this should be his last last race if he doesn't deliver at Eastern Creek. He did not do bad in qualifying, but could have done better, really.

France is showing the mark and Switzerland too. GBR now need to compete alittle bit better.

Someone in an ealier part of this thread mentioned Darren Manning, or perhaps now Alex Llyod should get his chance to show what he can do.

Let's hope Robbie does well in the Sunday Race. If not bring on the other drivers please.
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Old 5 Nov 2005, 17:47 (Ref:1452908)   #19
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Hepatic should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridHepatic should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think Robbie is doing fine. He's had mechanical failures and been involved in other peoples accidents, you can't blame him for that. Give the guy a clean weekend, then start to make judgments on his ability, not before.

*my 2p!
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Old 5 Nov 2005, 19:35 (Ref:1452969)   #20
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AlMillion should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Sadly, things seem all so simple when watching on TV. What none of us know or hear about are the political/internal disputes that may or may not be going on.

Estoril - John Bright was removed from the team at the last minute, and car performance took a big step backwards. Robbie's qualifying was screwed by Arden who set tyre pressures wrong by 10psi.

What are a team like Arden doing making mistakes like that? Some would say it could only be deliberate.

Robbie was in a 4-man test for the GB seat and clearly outperformed the other drivers despite having very little seat time in advance. 6 out of 7 of the people judging voted for Robbie first - on paper it looks like Alex was only ever meant to be a backup driver. Alex has since shamed himself by not being a team player on TV, I can't imagine that went unnoticed. He clearly can't hide the fact he hopes Robbie does so badly he gets a chance.

If you ask me, I reckon Arden have another driver they want to be driving for GB (probably someone that owes them money from F3000/GP2) and have been trying to 'encourage' Surtees/Team GB to see things their way, as well as demotivate Robbie.

Hopefully this will stop and they'll give Robbie a real chance to perform to the level he can (which in my opinion is higher than that of Neel Jani at least).

Robbie Kerr has not been the limiting factor for Team GB in races so far, I think that's pretty clear. Tomorrow's race will be very interesting.
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Old 5 Nov 2005, 19:56 (Ref:1452975)   #21
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foreversideways should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridforeversideways should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I don't think Alex was critical of the team on TV. I think you are just being a little to sensitive there and doing what the tabliod press do "blowing things up out of proportion". As to the Robbie and Alex situation. For me it is simple, you have two drivers, so you use them. Other teams are doing this by alternating their drivers, for example France, Australia, New Zealand to name just 3. Two sets of input and feedback have to be better than one. Perhaps Robbie is going in the wrong direction with the car ?. With no comparison, who can say. Also this perspective of Alex being a rookie is in my opinion just not so. I admit that since Formula Renult his seat time has been limited due to money. However when he has raced he has been excellent and as team mate to Jonny Read in F3000 he was comprehensivly faster. New Zealand appear quite happy to run Jonny and there are quite a number of drivers out there who are nowhere near in the same league as Alex. So i would say to team GB, you have employed two drivers so use them.
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Old 5 Nov 2005, 20:20 (Ref:1452988)   #22
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I have to say Robbie is doing fine, but in my opinion, and I say my opinion, he is not GBR, which what this racing series is all about. It is about GBR, not driver. Yes the driver is needed, but it is not a series for the benefit as a whole. It is for Country 's pride, as Sheik says everytime he starts the race. Pride of your country.

If Robbie performs great, but if not, it doesn't matter what mechnical, or any other reasons. Then perhaps another driver might have better luck as well.

Again I am not Robbie bashing, go get them Robbie on Sunday, but if not, try another thats all I am saying.
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Old 5 Nov 2005, 21:15 (Ref:1453011)   #23
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AlMillion - a search through your posts reveals two things.

One - you dislike the Arden team

Two - you believe Robbie Kerr is the greatest driver ever

What's your vested interest in him?
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Old 5 Nov 2005, 21:35 (Ref:1453021)   #24
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Actually, I take exception to that comment as well, AlMillion. As Robbie's manager, you have an interest in defending Robbie, if anyone attacks him, ands as Alex's father, I would tend to take the same view of Alex, although I suspect I can be a little more realistic.

However, I would be very interested to hear where you got the "Alex has shamed himself on TV" idea. He appears to me to have been very diplomatic in every sense. He might also accept the logic of sticking with Robbie, even though he may not personally agree with it. But your comment there is way off the mark, over-emotional and untrue.

You do know what's going on behind the scenes, as, to an extent, do I. You will know, therefore that Robbie didn't outperform the other 4 drivers in the shootout, and moreover, Alex and James Rossiter each did 20 laps only on the 2nd day, all posting the same times, despite Robbie having completed 60 laps the day before.

You will also know that the incorrect tyre pressure on one of the four qualifying laps was supposed to go no further. And to say it could be deliberate is plainly ridiculous. Your man is doing OK, I don't hear too many people having a go at him, and certainly not Alex. One of the things I rather admire about Alex is his ability to tell the truth, and not get involved in petty political wranglings. If Robbie's driving well - if any opponent is driving well - Alex both recognises it and says so. Same with technical feedback ... if the problem lies with him, he is able to recognise and admit to it instantly, and only by doing that can you truly go forward. Making excuses is a recipe for covering up essential truths, and if you do that, you won't achieve your potential.

Don't make excuses for Robbie. The team are clearly desperate to give him all the time in the car that he needs, so it is ridiculous that you suggest they are trying to demotivate him. Nothing could be further from the truth. At Estoril, when it was formally announced that Alex would get to shake down the 2nd car in one or bnoth of the extra test sessions, Alex was suited, helmetted and ready to climb in, only to be told that, as it was raining, the team wanted to give Robbie every chance to get as much time in any car, so Robbie would do the extra tests instead.

I don't recall Alex mentioning that, do you? And it certainly isn't indicative of a team that is trying to demoralise Robbie. The team have done a great job so far, and certainly got us our one podium. They aren't ever going to be completely happy until TeamGB stand on the top step through merit, and we aren't quick enough yet.

As most people tend to agree, it is a combination of driver/engineer that get the best out of these cars, and thus far we haven't set the pace. However, I don't think anyone's pointed the finger at Robbie, nor said that the team aren't giving him a real chance to perform to the level he can. Robbie is doing his best, and Arden are doing their best. So stop trying to defend Robbie by attacking everyone else. Robbie doesn't need defending, he's doing OK, and should continue to get quicker. If he doesn't, then is the time to roll out the fabled drivers' excuse book. But stop rubbishing everyone else, it's wrong, it's very irritating, and you aren't doing your man any favours.
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Old 5 Nov 2005, 22:11 (Ref:1453052)   #25
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For the record, I am NOT Robbie's manager and I don't believe my posts are emotional or devoid of fact. Clearly I've touched a nerve and wound people up the wrong way which was not my intention. Writing my opinion in these forums is not likely to help Robbie's career and as I am in telecommunications it certainly does not benefit me either!

I believe I'm entitled to that opinion and to share information which has been shared with me (none of which I knew to be confidential as it is commonly known amongst several of the teams working in the pitlane) and if any of it is incorrect I apologise as I'm certainly not trying to mislead people.
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