Mercedes F1?

[BSchneiderFan]

With Ferrari, Renault and Toyota already having factory F1 squads, BMW about to join the party in 2006 and Honda likely to pick up BAT's majority holding in BAR, I wonder if Mercedes-Benz can afford not to become a full works team in the future. After all, if any of the factory squads win a GP, it's "Ferrari/Toyota/other wins the ___ Grand Prix!". If McLaren wins, then it's "McLaren wins" or, at best, "McLaren-Mercedes" wins. Mercedes-Benz is already losing ground to BMW in sales terms, so can it be sustainable to give away this kind of publicity too?

Just food for thought.

[Kicking-back]

One of the best things Ron Dennis did was keeping the McLaren name, rather than calling his cars after fire engines.

I would hope if/when Mercedes assume full control they do the same.

Bruce's family are still very proud of his legacy - and I hope such historical significance retains a place in F1.

[BSchneiderFan]

Oh, so do I, but I'm not sure the marketing boys at DaimlerChrysler will have the same sentimental attachment to the McLaren name.

[BootsOntheSide]

KB, the cars are named after pushchairs now. Insert joke about JPM throwing his toys out of the pram here.

Mercedes have been the McLaren weak link for a while now. To turn the argument around, the public see McLaren electrical failures rather than Mercedes engine failures.

[Menelaos]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

Mercedes have been the McLaren weak link for a while now.

I think it's a bit more than "a while". It's a typical GP picture: a McLaren leads and suddenly we see smoke from the back and bye bye engine. McLaren would do well to get rid of those engines as soon as possible.

[Raglanparade]

It would be a very very sad day if the McLaren name was gone from Formula 1.

[Alex Hodgkinson]

Originally Posted by Menelaos

I think it's a bit more than "a while". It's a typical GP picture: a McLaren leads and suddenly we see smoke from the back and bye bye engine. McLaren would do well to get rid of those engines as soon as possible.

mmm about the last 2 or 3 years now.

[Xpunk75]

With out Ferrari, Mclaren, and Williams Their is no F1 Period. They are the teams everyone knows and have grown up watching their success. They are the teams the majority of the fans root for. Don't get me wrong im tired of seeing them win all the time myself but with out them F1 wouldn't be the same.

Thats why I hope in 3 or 5 years I don't see Mercedies instead of Mclaren racing in F1. My Greek friend up above said they should get rid of the engines and find a new engine partner but its not that simple because they own is it 60% of the team or 40%? I can't remember but it's something like that and Ron has talked about retireing and after he is gone I think the Mclaren name might get changed.

[JeremySmith]

IMHO I don't think the McLaren name will ever go away as you said "Xpunk75" teams like these are Formula1.

[DKGandBH]

As did Brabham, Benetton, Lotus ...

Names come and go.

DKGandBH

[senna12]

Given the resources available at Paragon, Mercedes really have no reason to change the status quo and go solo. I think BMW, even with Saubers resources, will take a while to be successful. Just look at Toyota. It just seems to prove that the quality of your engineers and mechanics is what really makes the difference, and McLaren is certainly not lacking in either.

It's a question of money too. Mercedes are currently in the middle of an executive shuffle, and have enough to deal with in the real world of selling sedans. Going it alone would cost too much money.

[Kicking-back]

Of course Mercedes use the McLaren branding on the SLR roadcar project, so clearlty they still see some cachet in the name.

[climb]

Brand a team with their own name is a risky option since if you lose there is no escape, let's remember what happened to Jaguar.

[Dutton]

I will go so far as to work on the premise of WHEN Mercedes buy-out Mclaren.

The name just comes down to the corporate strategies of Mercedes. The company will hold no emotional attachment to Mclaren, and will only keep it if they decide that is the branding that will make them the most profit.

You may have a point there KB, perhaps they could keep the Mclaren branding alive so as to use it for pushing their highest-performance vehicles etc. It could provide a nice excuse to chuck a bit more onto the price tag.

However, they may decide that the mass customer base reached with F1 it is best to simply have the Mercedes brand pumped into the brains of hundreds of millions of people rather than trying anything subtler.

I could see it being a bit of both: maintain Mclaren until they have sorted out any issues in the early years, and once they are fully up to speed and comfortable with their success standards and/or potential, or what have you, then switch to the Mercedes branding.

Who knows, though? It could all work out any old way. Mercedes might leave F1 in 4 years for all we know, or they might buy-out Mclaren in 2007 and rename the team Squirk-Ploobarb Racing Performance F1 or some such.

[Gt_R]

Although i'm fully aware of the heartless way mega corporations go about doing their business, i'd be very sad the day Mclaren name is gone... hence i hope, even should Mercedes buy over Mclaren, keep the name of the team.

We've seen the names like Lotus gone.. those names meant more than mere letters, each representing the spirit and history of greatness of a team.

In fact, should Mercedes take over Mclaren, instead of changing the name, why not capitalise on the name Mclaren, and it's history in racing and one of the world's best supercar, to start a very exclusive and limited range of mclaren supercars? It would perfectly complement the current Mercedes & Maybach names.

[Dutton]

Indeed Gt_R. The elite branding is cetainly a possibility, there is logic to it. However, I am not convinced that it could bring them more than the mass-market.

What about caling themselves Mercedes-Mclaren? Both are kept alive, but Mercedes will dominate the scenery?

[Menelaos]

Well, actually we're all talking about how much the Mercedes name is being heard when a McLaren wins, but bottom line is I don't know if Mercedes would prefer to hear "Mercedes 's engine died again". At least now they say "McLaren's engine died". Generally, Mercedes is the weak part of this team, I don't know how they'd even consider renaming the team, it's ridiculous at best.

[Mike_Wooshy]

If Mercedes hadnt brought into Mclaren I'd have imagine ron would have jumped at BMW.

[BootsOntheSide]

As it stands, running with the McLaren-Mercedes name does limit the positive publicity they get when the car wins, but not to the same extent as it limits the bad publicity when tehy don't.

[Gerben24]

I don't really like having engine manufacturers teams. If car sales go down the big boys of the company might decide its time to stop funding the sportssection and they have to pull out. This is what almost happened with Jaguar, we were just lucky Red Bull wanted to have their own team for a long while. If Mercedes would decide to stop with F1, I'm sure Mclaren would not stop to exist, they would find a different engine supplier and probably struggle for a couple of years. At least we wouldn't lose a team.

[Dutton]

$The Mercedes issues at present are why, as $I said before, I think they would keep the Mclaren name until they thought they had it sorteed out properly - this is working on the basis of all things being equal.

Gerben, remember that although it cetainly is true that manufacturers will pull out at some point, they will also sell the team on to another buyer first. They would be unwilling, unless in extreme circumstances, to just write-off the investment in its totality.

Thus, we will tend to get the handing over of ownership of teams rather than a net loss as such.

[Russ-Turner]

Originally Posted by Alex Hodgkinson

mmm about the last 2 or 3 years now.

McLaren have been losing championships since 2000 by my reckoning.