[Rules] Time to scrap the safety car?

[ensign14]

The old system was abused by a driver who ignored yellows and ploughed straight into the wreck for which the yellows were deployed. What's the chap's name? Something like Alfonso?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by strider

There was a time when the idea was to get all the cars slowed down to a safe speed before the Safety Car was sent out and then it could pick the leader quite easily.

Not sure what's changed in the Regulations, but now there seems to be a race to get into the pits before it's deployed. I think I preferred the old system.

What has changed? The use of the SC this season seems to be a major issue.

[BootsOntheSide]

One obvious rule changed that's required is to stop pitstops being made under the safety car, except for weather changes and obvious damage. There's no issue of cars running out of fuel anymore, so no reason why teams should be allowed tog et a 'free' pitstop anymore. I'd rather see enforced use of the pitlane speel limiter instead though, as this would keep the cars roughly the same distance apart as before and prevent races being turned upside down by pure luck.

[Perksy]

Originally Posted by strider

There was a time when the idea was to get all the cars slowed down to a safe speed before the Safety Car was sent out and then it could pick the leader quite easily.

Not sure what's changed in the Regulations, but now there seems to be a race to get into the pits before it's deployed. I think I preferred the old system.

I agree.
The rules as they stand, allow teams/drivers to gain a free pitsop thus ruining the racing. If the safety car is deployed, the pitlane exit should close till the train has gone past. You can still stop for safety/repairs, but no-one gains advantage by it.

In terms of reducing speed...why not have a second speed limiter/rev limiter setting which could be activated either centrally by race control, or by the driver once the SC lights go on. The pitlane system is already there...its a simple add on which will go some way to reducing risk to marshals, crash vistims & rescue teams.

[duke_toaster]

The fact that the gaps would be preserved is the problem such a system, the point of the SC is that it bunches the cars up so the marshals have longer windows to deal with the accident.

[TalkToFrank]

There is a very good point here that these cars do not need to pit for fuel like they did last year, so unless you have a major issue like a puncture, pitting under the safety car should be banned.

If you have no choice other than to pit, then you go to the back of the line and that that as the penalty. Cars should only be pitting during a green flag period and then they all get treated fairly. This would also stop the stupid issue of cars queuing in pit lane and casuing a dangerous situation for pit crews and being unfair to the 2nd driver who has to wait.

If you have to pit after the green flag comes out then you will lose a lot of track position, but that cannot be avoided.

[Marbot]

That's a very good point!

No pitting during safety car periods.

Of course, the need to change tyres at all would sort it.

[Alan Raine]

Originally Posted by Marbot

That's a very good point!

No pitting during safety car periods.

Of course, the need to change tyres at all would sort it.

Makes sense to me.

The main problem yesterday was that the SC didn't pick up the leader. Hamilton slowed up but decided to go anyway. I wonder if Alonso is fed up with Hamilton for slowing which prevented him from getting across the SC line in time?

[Purist]

The trouble is, banning pitting under the yellow would backfire in some ways, ways that would have you guys complaining all over again.

We've discussed elsewhere how having variables in play about what state the cars are in can help promote overtaking, but if you take this variable out, it's likely that EVERYONE chooses to pit at about the same time, based on what the first man in does. If, incidentally, a caution comes out to prevent this from happening, then one guy effectively goes past the entire field, and we'd complain about that too. This suggestion would basically eliminate strategies like what we saw with Kobayashi, and probably alternate strategies altogether, which would NOT be good for the actual racing.

[bjohnsonsmith]

While they continue to have pitstops in F1, the easiest solution would be to get rid of the safetycar line and use the same rules for the SC and pitstops as they do in IndyCar racing; it works, problem solved.

[captain crunch]

use the same rules for the SC and pitstops as they do in IndyCar racing

I agree. The americans had this conundrum figured out decades ago. As soon as the race goes full-course yellow, the pits close, and stay closed until the pace car picks up the leader and allows the field to bunch up behind- since the pits are closed, there is no incentive to charge through debris to get a "free" pit stop. Next time by, the pits open. Simple enough. As for closed pits, there are exceptions- if you have a puncture or are nearly out of fuel you may stop, but only do the necessary work on the car to get around one more lap- if you have a puncture, you may replace that tyre but not the others. If you're out of a fuel, a splash 'n' dash, but not a full tank.

And while we're at it, split each team's pit crew in two to give each driver his own crew, putting an end to this stacking nonsense. We might even get a "race off pit road".

Still surprises me how the americans do this so well and almost every european based series makes such a mess of it.

[SWCRacing]

I wish everyone making comments on here would read the regulations!!!!
Firstly, the safety car DOES NOT have to pick the leader up! (Reg 40.6)
Secondly, overtaking of the safety car is only allowed under certain circumstances (Reg 40.7), and that is when it is going into the pits with its lights off and only then once it has passed the first safety car line
And thirdly, the safety car is deemed to be deployed as soon as the message is posted on the official monitors! Which means NO OVERTAKING from that moment on!

And what driver would like outside control of his car to be implemented when in a fast corner?? Lift-off oversteer and straight to the scene of the accident (thereby probably necessitating a further safetycar period.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by captain crunch

And while we're at it, split each team's pit crew in two to give each driver his own crew, putting an end to this stacking nonsense. We might even get a "race off pit road".

Still surprises me how the americans do this so well and almost every european based series makes such a mess of it.

It just makes sense for the SC to pick up on the lead car, then you don't have problems with who is what position. It stems from the early days when positions and time keeping were worked out by the spotter and stop watches.

Agreed, they should do something about the pit crews. They still have much larger crews per car than in Indy.

[ensign14]

Originally Posted by captain crunch

I agree. The americans had this conundrum figured out decades ago. As soon as the race goes full-course yellow, the pits close, and stay closed until the pace car picks up the leader and allows the field to bunch up behind- since the pits are closed, there is no incentive to charge through debris to get a "free" pit stop. Next time by, the pits open.

Except that if a team is running 1-2, the second chap's race is ruined. Stuck behind Buemi.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by ensign14

Except that if a team is running 1-2, the second chap's race is ruined. Stuck behind Buemi.

I've watched many an IndyCar race and that hasn't been the case.

[Purist]

That's a problem for F1 to fix by allowing a second stall and crew for each team, as I'm assuming they don't at the moment.

There will be NO race off of pit road, because most European pit lanes, and most international pits for that matter, are too narrow to do that even remotely safely. In terms of width, even Martinsville and Bristol are generous in terms of room on pit lane compared to many F1 circuit, and then you have places like Road America and Pocono where you'd have room for three lanes of traffic outside of the pit boxes.

[Alan Raine]

Originally Posted by SWCRacing

I wish everyone making comments on here would read the regulations!!!!
Firstly, the safety car DOES NOT have to pick the leader up! (Reg 40.6)

I realise that, but life would be much easier if it did.

[Whosyermon]

Change whatever rule you want to but before you scrap any of the SCs save one from the Crusher for me. I'd be happy to drive it around town.

[ensign14]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I've watched many an IndyCar race and that hasn't been the case.

Yes, because a team can pit both cars simultaneously. That's not possible in F1's pitlanes.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by SWCRacing

I wish everyone making comments on here would read the regulations!!!!
Firstly, the safety car DOES NOT have to pick the leader up! (Reg 40.6)
Secondly, overtaking of the safety car is only allowed under certain circumstances (Reg 40.7), and that is when it is going into the pits with its lights off and only then once it has passed the first safety car line
And thirdly, the safety car is deemed to be deployed as soon as the message is posted on the official monitors! Which means NO OVERTAKING from that moment on!

Isn't this where the problem lies, with the regulations and not the SC itself? They aren't strightforward and are made overly complicated with these safety car lines. Keep it simple and it will work.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by ensign14

Yes, because a team can pit both cars simultaneously. That's not possible in F1's pitlanes.

Sorry I thought you were referring to IndyCars in a 1-2 situation, not F1.

They ought to do something about that.

[fer312t]

All they need to do is to return to closing the pits and have the Safety Car pick up the leader. This worked fine for years, and was only scrapped because it potentially screwed people that required refueling on that given lap...This of course, is not a moot point...

[neiltb]

^^

good point, back to the old rule, SC out, pits closed, pits open when deemed safe.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by fer312t

All they need to do is to return to closing the pits and have the Safety Car pick up the leader. This worked fine for years, and was only scrapped because it potentially screwed people that required refueling on that given lap...This of course, is not a moot point...

They've been using this format in the US for years, without any problem.

[paddy]

We can't scrap it for all the reasons listed above. I watch a lot of motorsport and drivers simply don't respect yellow flags in a way that would protect marshals. As there's now no re-fuelling simply bunch the field behind the safety car in race order and only allow pitstops when they are sorted. Teams may have to stack or alter their strategy for the second car, but it's probably the best solution.