3.5 series Vs Gp2 series

[Rf1 Fan]

What are your views on these two series?

Also i wonder how drivers should approach this choice in their careers.

Is it better for a driver in F3 to go straight to Gp2 (like Nasr,Marciello) or via Gp3.

Can a driver do some 3.5 series and then some Gp2 like Vandoorne or Pic?

We have some upcoming stars like Verstappen or Ocon that will have to make a choice.

[JoestForEver]

WSR is basically running the same speed as GP2, or is it?

[Rf1 Fan]

Originally Posted by JoestForEver

WSR is basically running the same speed as GP2, or is it?

yes.

Gp2 has more horsepower (80 hp) and grippier tyres.

WSR has much more downforce.

[p-matt]

Wasn't the gp2 car miles quicker during the Monaco weekend?

I know a lot of people here hero worship 3.5, but:
- the racing isn't that great
- the level of competition isn't as strong this year compared to previous years. Gp2 clearly has a superior grid
- The F1 teams are increasingly moving away from it to GP2 to but their protégés in. Red Bull are the only exception (but largely because they'd rather have their drivers doing sim work for the F1 team during a GP weekend)
- It doesn't prepare drivers well enough for F1 as it's essentially a quali formula rather than a racer's formula like GP2. 3.5 drivers don't have to master the skills to manage tyres in the same way, and recent graduates I.e Magnussen and Vandoorne haven't looked fully sharp in the pack in wheel to wheel combat since they moved on, as they've been largely uncontested up the front in 3.5.

[Formulahistory]

GP2 has two problems:

1) Reverse Grid
2) Experienced driver has an huge advantage.

[Rf1 Fan]

At Monaco Gp2 cars were 2.5 seconds quicker but at Hungaroring Gp2 cars were as fast as FR3.5 car.

In Monaco Gp2 had super soft tyre.

Racing isn't that great because Fr3.5 has so much downforce and gp2 has softer tyres. But still this year we had pretty good races such as race 2 in Motorland or Spa.



Then for junior teams i guess it is more about value for money out there. i guess that somewhat Gp2 did find a way to sell better its product through f1 package as now f1 boadcasters and gp2 broadcasters are locked together like moto2 and moto gp.


I think that now Renault has realised that they won't be able to compete. They will just try to provide a quick and cheaper as before.

[peebee2]

GP2

Driver field not brilliant
Reverse grid races poor
Experience pays big bonus but then nobody rates you if you win in year 3 or 4

FR3.5

Cheaper
Really old fashioned car underneath
Lots of reliability problems
Driver level very poor these days, top six ok but rest dross

[p-matt]

Originally Posted by Formulahistory

GP2 has two problems:

1) Reverse Grid
2) Experienced driver has an huge advantage.

I can't agree that these are problems:

1) Reverse grids - it's not about who wins the reverse grid races. The point is that it forces everyone in the field to demonstrate their racecraft. As GP2 is a finishing school pre-F1 it needs to test this skill. Magnussen got through to F1 without really being tested on racing wheel to wheel through the pack in his championship year, and he openly admitted he was lacking in experience in this area.

2) Shouldn't experienced drivers have an advantage? Like F1 cars, GP2 cars are complex beasts to master so it ought to take time. I'd rather have that than rookies coming straight into 3.5 (from Eurocup usually), and being bang on the pace with drivers that have a lot of experience from other series. And it's not like rookies can't shine in GP2 - Vandoorne and Marciello have both shown something very special as rookies this year

[ivanalesi]

It's all 'bout the money and I don't think it's funny! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcXMhwF4EtQ

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Well Euro F3 has a more talented field than both FR3.5 and GP2 combined imo.

FR3.5 has Gasly, Sainz, Rowland and Mehri as the genuinely talented drivers, with Sorensen, Sirotkin and Stevens being pretty handy too.

GP2 has Vandoorne, Nasr, Evans and Marciello, whilst Palmer has seemingly turned things around (although I think being lead driver for DAMS does help that) despite being spoon-fed for a large part of his career.

The issue with FR3.5 is that it's not teaching the drivers all of the skills they need for F1, such as tyre management and racecraft, whilst the reverse grid and strategic lottery GP2 often features means that it's hard to consistently show you're abilities (something Vandoorne and Marciello have suffered from this season) and as a result the experienced journeymen (Johnny Cecotto Jr is probably the best example), who've learned the best ways to be consistent not due to talent but cash and time, end up getting really good results. There's no way Palmer's the most naturally gifted driver in the GP2 field, and there's no way Cecotto is near the top 4.

However, you can't really have both, as experience helps with tyre management and with tyre management, teams can take risky strategies that can pay off, ending with results that are a bit odd. It's a case of what you want. As a young driver, do you want to be noticed, or do you want to learn?

[Juntos]

Still think that both series should not be comparable. World Series by Renault shall be a stepping stone to the big league before Formula One.

Now that Renault renewed the support to the World Series, anyone want to start the bidding on what happens next? Going once, going twice.
Anyone want to start the bidding on what happens next? Going once, going twice.

[Rf1 Fan]

Originally Posted by Juntos

Still think that both series should not be comparable. World Series by Renault shall be a stepping stone to the big league before Formula One.

Now that Renault renewed the support to the World Series, anyone want to start the bidding on what happens next? Going once, going twice.
Anyone want to start the bidding on what happens next? Going once, going twice.

Right now i kind of agree.

And i think that somewhat Renault became aware of that.

The fact with Palmer that is disturbing is that he has been beaten by all his team mates in gp2 bar richelmi.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by Rf1 Fan

The fact with Palmer that is disturbing is that he has been beaten by all his team mates in gp2 bar richelmi.

Including Felipe Nasr.

[ivanalesi]

Yes, but the car is often faster than GP2, especially through the corners. They are and have always been in competition. Remember Vettel or Kubica?
Also in F1 tire management isn't the issue it was early on last season and in GP2 it is exactly like early 2013. Extreme tire management.
For me, FR3.5 is for those drivers who are talented and can't find the big budget for GP2.
If money was no problem, then everybody would choose GP2 as it is support series, it has Pirellis, goes to exotic race tracks and so on, but not everybody has an oil rich country sponsor or big F1 team behind his back.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Current F1 grid:

Nico Rosberg (GP2)
Lewis Hamilton (GP2)
Daniel Ricciardo (FR3.5)
Sebastian Vettel (FR3.5)
Fernando Alonso (F3000)
Kimi Raikkonen (FR2.0)
Valterri Bottas (GP3)
Felipe Massa (F3000)
Nico Hulkenberg (GP2)
Sergio Perez (GP2)
Jenson Button (BF3)
Kevin Magnussen (FR3.5)
Jean-Eric Vergne (FR3.5)
Danil Kvyat (GP3)
Romain Grosjean (GP2 - twice)
Pastor Maldonado (FR3.5 and GP2)
Jules Bianchi (GP2 and FR3.5)
Max Chilton (GP2)
Esteban Gutierrez (GP2)
Adrian Sutil (JF3)
Marcus Ericsson (GP2)
Kamui Kobayashi (GP2)

As you can see, GP2 has more graduates (which is the entire point of the series), but has some poor ones as well as some who have turned out to be pretty handy.

[bella]

i think original gp2 and current gp2 are almost two completely different kettles of fish. it would be interesting to see who arrived in f1 from which version of gp2...

they've both got their place, you can't say it's one series vs another because they're clearly different concepts. in the end you're learning skills to equip you for a career in motorsport. if you have to practice at a series for a few years to win it then perhaps that's not the same thing as learning the skill and becoming proficient at it...

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Just for bella

Nico Rosberg - GP2 - 2005
Lewis Hamilton - GP2 - 2006
Nico Hulkenberg - GP2 - 2009 (+2008/09 Asia series)
Sergio Perez GP2 - 2009-10 (+2008/09 Asia series)
Romain Grosjean GP2 - 2008-09, 2010-11
Pastor Maldonado GP2 - 2007-10
Jules Bianchi GP2 - 2009-11
Max Chilton GP2 - 2010-12 (+2009/10 Asia series)
Esteban Gutierrez GP2 - 2011-12
Marcus Ericsson GP2 - 2010-13 (+2009/10 Asia series)
Kamui Kobayashi GP2 - 2008-09

So the 2 standout GP2 graduates are the only graduates to have raced in the series with the GP2-05 chassis. Whilst the Hulk is probably the other standout (and the only other one to have needed just 1 season before they enter F1), the other notable graduates (Perez, Grosjean, Bianchi and Maldonado) all spent more than one season in the series before they got their chance.

Just to help people out, GP2 had new chassis for each of the following seasons: 2005, 2008, 2011

[bella]

quality stats, thanks for rummaging that out

i think ultimately, comparing series by their past is a bit futile, but if they're marketing themselves by their alumni (which both of them are guilty of) then it's worth taking a look at exactly who they are and which form of the series they went through. both can only rest their laurels on graduates from a decade ago for so long

i'm not sure there's really anything wrong with the 3.5 car. whether it's old or new tech is kind of irrelevant - both are behind f1 in that neither use a turbo engine or any kind of daft harvesting or knob twiddling. if anything gp3 was more relevant back when they ran street sweepers

[somebodysb2]

Anyone fancy seeing a Formula Renault 2.0T Series running Dallara SF14 chassis mated to Nissan Super GT engines?

Please Renault, ditch those reworked 2005-era A1GP Zytek engines..

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

I doubt it. I doubt the SF14 will be used outside of Super Formula unless its BOSS or something like that.

[JoestForEver]

Well with a few modifications Dallara can just roll out their brand new chassis which is basically the SF14. Just like the new Indy light chassis to come.