[Movies] Senna Movie

[strider]

I've posted this link in the thread in the F1 forum about the film but I think it's worth using again for people who don't go there much. Manish Pandey, the writer and executive producer of the film talks about Senna's religious beliefs: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/manish..._b_909096.html

I found it fascinating.

[Bononi]

I just bought the DVD today. Maybe I'll watch it this weekend to see what else there is from what I watched previously.

[strider]

Is it the same as the film or longer? There's supposed to be a 4-hour version in existence.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by strider

Is it the same as the film or longer? There's supposed to be a 4-hour version in existence.

I'm planning to verify this on sunday evening, when I have the time... The information on the cover says the length is 105 min.

[strider]

Sounds like the same as the film then. I think 4 hours would be too much. Hope you enjoy it, if that's the right word.

[Bononi]

The DVD has the original movie (105 min.) with no additions. The "extras" is a Ayrton Senna's Institute short documentary and producers commentary on making the movie.

Yeah, I'm a little dissapointed.

[Aysedasi]

I watched the first half again last night. I suddenly realised I'd never actually seen the footage of Rubens' accident before. Astonishing.... And what those marshalls did to him righting the car afterwards..... Jeez.....

[djb]

hi guys, the film is fairly new here, a few weeks, and tonight I saw it with my wife.
(oh before I forget, yes the marshalls could have been gentle turning it over, jesus murphy they just honked the damn thing over, his head got a good wangle from just that!)

I realize the film is old news for you brits, but having just seen it, I have to say it was very well done, especially in that my wife who doesnt follow any racing, was quite enthralled and was totally taken up with the drama of the whole thing.

its bloody late here, but its fascinating how much footage, voice overs and the music sound track was put together to create an accesible captivating "story" of the mans life.

Fascinating to see all the drivers we all know when they were so much younger.

oh--also, I was astounded they didnt use the Donnington wet race, I guess they figured the opening Monaco bit in the rain was "enough" of "rain mastering" as a sub-plot for the general viewer--but was still surprised it wasnt put in as even a short bit to show his extraordinary feel for a car.

I will have to read teh other posts to see what you all thought (I had avoided this as I wanted to go and see it with no idea of how it was put together)

I still have to say, I feel this film will remain interesting over time, mostly because how it can draw in the casual viewer (my wife as the perfect example). In the car afterwards, I told my wife how I remembered things, and how for instance the fact that he died from a happenstance of details (specifically the suspension strut in helmet) but the Japan start line debacle and him driving into Prost could also had resulted in a freak but fatal injury...so my thoughts on him are still quite mixed....

darn good job on putting together the film though, in creating a coherent drama that worked.

cheers

[Born Racer]

Not impressed only the Blu-Ray version has the extended version with the talking heads. On the DVD, these only take the form of an extra feature rather than being amalgamated into the film. Guess I should crack on with getting my PS3 then.

[fieldodreams79]

I am lucky enough to live in a town where I can grab an Indie film and a pint at the same time at The Cine

I was able to attend last night's viewing of Senna, one day before it was to end. As someone who started watching F1 "post Senna", I found the movie very eye opening regarding the political implications in F1 at the time, the Prost v Senna deal and how the economic and social situations in Brasil made Aryton Senna even that much more special. I always knew it was one of those infamous weekends in F1, but the 94 San Marino GP and the events that led up to it, including the last few races of the previous season were so bizarre that it seems it could have only been scripted from a playwright's tragedy.

I play football (soccer) on Sundays with a Brasilian who was a huge racing fan until Senna's death; I now know why.

Tragic story, but a phenomenal movie; a must see for any race fan.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

I play football (soccer) on Sundays with a Brasilian who was a huge racing fan until Senna's death; I now know why.

That's what happened to the casual fans back then. I know/knew many people just like that and it remains to this day. Now it has been 20 years since the last championship, since then no brazilian step up to fill the gap left by those 3 world champions.

[chunder]

I cant imagine that Senna's death has seen a drop in drivers from there getting involved in racing. I guess it might. but maybe that was just a boomtime?

Seems there are just as many South American drivers wanting to get to the UK like Senna did as kids and drive.

I do feel very selfishly that a Prost film needs to be made too, to show his side of the story, but he would never want that, being the gentleman he is, even though he was a bit of a tyrant politically. And he isn't dead so it's hardly the same type of deal, my only issue with the movie was the weights stacked against Alain, obviosuly this was inevitable, but a little sad from my point of view.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by chunder

I cant imagine that Senna's death has seen a drop in drivers from there getting involved in racing. I guess it might. but maybe that was just a boomtime?

Seems there are just as many South American drivers wanting to get to the UK like Senna did as kids and drive.

I'm sure that's true, but none since have attracted the mass adulation that Senna did. Even for me as a Brit, F1 has never been the same and I guess never will be.

[djb]

Originally Posted by chunder

And he isn't dead so it's hardly the same type of deal, my only issue with the movie was the weights stacked against Alain, obviosuly this was inevitable, but a little sad from my point of view.

good point. I think the issue here is that the film, like all films, has the structure of the "good guy" (Senna), the "bad guy" (Belestre) and the "good guys nemesis" (Prost). As I said, I really did find that they made a film that is quite fascinating, especially in that it can grab veiwers like my wife (or her sister who saw it also) who dont really know F1 that much or at all, but Senna the character ends up being such a fascinating story, his obvious amazing talent, his stubborness, his tragic death--it all adds up to a lot of "meat" for a fascinating tale..
For those of us who followed things more closely, yes there could (and should) be less of "black and white", and more grey areas, more opinions from others such as Prost--but that said, it does come down to it being a film, the filmmaker wants it to be successful and it to appeal to a broader audience, so the more "black and white" aspect of it helps it be more of a gripping story that someone like my wife can be absorbed in for 90mins.

I still say that as a project, the filmmaker really pulled it off, and this film will remain a strong compelling film, even in 20 or 50 years. For us bozos who want more detailed angles on things, it would be nice to have some other opinoins on him and such, but you gotta hand it to the film in how it works as a "story", "broad stroked" as it can be in some ways.

chund, recall that I said in my earlier post that I still have mixed feeelings about him, so I know what you mean.

[fieldodreams79]

Alain was most certainly villainized in this film; rightfully so? I cannot answer that, but it most certainly didn't look good for him, for the most part. However, at the end of the film it was noted that Alain was instrumental in the funding of Senna's educational program and the film itself (from what I remember). Also, in keeping an open mind, Alain did perhaps what any French driver at the time would have done in a one of the most fiercely fought rivalries in F1 history.

As I stated before, I didn't begin following F1 until the late 90s, so I have based opinions on what I watched last night.

[Bononi]

There would never be a Senna without a Prost.


In Nuno Cobra's book, Senna's personal trainer, he tells that Senna focused on beating Prost in every aspect to get better and better in his concentration and skills. Once he's finally beaten Prost he started to find it hard to get along, so Cobra suggested that he could focus on trying to beat himself...

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by Bononi

There would never be a Senna without a Prost.

Without a doubt; good point.

In Nuno Cobra's book, Senna's personal trainer, he tells that Senna focused on beating Prost in every aspect to get better and better in his concentration and skills. Once he's finally beaten Prost he started to find it hard to get along, so Cobra suggested that he could focus on trying to beat himself...

Very interesting point as the greatest adversary brings out the greatest in every competitor....



I am happy to be able to view such a film and have a place to discuss it because in a way, my brain thinks of F1 prior to TGF v Hakiknen as this mystical land that only exists in some old guy's coffee table book.

[chunder]

Haha, it's a shaem really as Hakkinen vs Schuey was never really that intense, far more so was Hill vs Schuey really, they really didnt like it other in any way!

I do feel that the fact Senna was so utterly obsessed with Prost kind of gives lain some sort of upper hand.

Senna was so utterly obsessisive and borderline out of control at times (not in the car, I mean emotionally) that it must have made Alain wonder what on earth he could do?

I still feel very, uncomfortable watching that clip from brazil in 92, the maniacal voice and almost Godlike way he acted was to say the least disturbing, and doesnt help me think anything than other than what Alain said, perhaps his most famous line.

"Ayrton has a small problem, he thinks that because he believes in God he can't kill himself". That will ALWAYS pull me on Alain's side, as I have a certain belief that Ayrton really did believe this to be true at times.

[djb]

Originally Posted by Bononi

There would never be a Senna without a Prost.


In Nuno Cobra's book, Senna's personal trainer, he tells that Senna focused on beating Prost in every aspect to get better and better in his concentration and skills. Once he's finally beaten Prost he started to find it hard to get along, so Cobra suggested that he could focus on trying to beat himself...

obrigado Bon, interesting info there from Cobra.

and "There would never be a Senna without a Prost."---don't know if you came up with that or not (doesnt matter) but that really is a great line, and I will remember that because it really does touch on a truth doesnt it?

ciao

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by djb

obrigado Bon, interesting info there from Cobra.

and "There would never be a Senna without a Prost."---don't know if you came up with that or not (doesnt matter) but that really is a great line, and I will remember that because it really does touch on a truth doesnt it?

ciao

Thanks mate !

Actually I can't remember if I came up with that or not, but I remember discussing it many times with other people, including here in the forum, anyway it's an old line, and yes, I believe that is the truth about this amazing story in F1 !

[Richard B]

Originally Posted by Bononi

There would never be a Senna without a Prost.

.

Whilst I agree the Prost situation added spice to the F1 drama at the time (and indeed the movie), Senna was a totally differant class long before he raced Prost; Formula Ford & British F3 he was awesome, then straight to F1 the following year!

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Richard B

Whilst I agree the Prost situation added spice to the F1 drama at the time (and indeed the movie), Senna was a totally differant class long before he raced Prost; Formula Ford & British F3 he was awesome, then straight to F1 the following year!

Certainly he was. But still, that was in Prost he found his greatest match. He told many times privately - as stated in the book - he was amazed by Prost's racecraft.

[chunder]

To be honest in those days all you needed to do was show a certain amount of class in F3 and you were in F1, the fasttrack was even bigger than today

Prost was always tied in with Elf and Renault and decided initially to go with McLaren to learn, and I think turned someone down very early in his career did he not?

The Elf/Renault way was the way most drivers got to F1 back then from France, Arnoux, Tambay, Jabouille et al.

So Prost was hardly slow in junior stuff, and also he was not as heavily backed financially as Senna who got the best rides.

He was amazing in karts and junior stuff though, perhaps the best ever and certainly a template for every South American since. Hpw many have there been? Seems like thouands!!

[Nicholosophy]

I started watching Formula 1 more seriously in 1992, although I had seen the odd Australian Grand Prix I'm sure. I would have been 11 or 12 at the time. Watching Formula 1 for me meant recording late night races and trying to watch them before school the next day.

I never got to see the Prost v Senna stuff except in history books. I don't really remember much about F1 from a "I watched it" point of view until Senna's death. That day in 1994 is etched in my mind forever.

Even at that time I knew the world had lost an amazing talent. I remember waiting with baited breath as they tried to remove him from the car and treat him. I remember him being slumped over and there being no movement; it wasn't right, the drivers just jumped out and the race went on.

I remember the voice of Murray Walker quivering as he announced the news that Ayrton was dead.

I saw the movie tonight and it opened my eyes wide to many things. I knew Senna was a legend, just like I know that there are other legends in the sport. But I can now see why he was such a legend of the sport even before his death.

It wasn't just about his talent, of which he had a lot. It was his passion. He was passionate about driving cars and achieving what he could. He was passionate in his relationships with those around him - competitors, women and fans alike. He was passionate about Brazil and the plight befalling his countryfolk and trying to improve their lives. Above all, he was a great man who was great at what he did.

This movie touched me. The way it was put together was brilliant and much better than any talking head interview movie that I've seen. I feel like a part of the puzzle of why I love Formula 1, and motor racing in general, has been given to me. It's the passion and skill that the drivers show, and the fact that they stare death and danger in the face and do what they love to do.

If I can live a life as full, then I think I will have lived a good life.

To Ayrton. If only I could have seen more of your racecraft during my time.

[herowassenna]

Originally Posted by chunder

To be honest in those days all you needed to do was show a certain amount of class in F3 and you were in F1, the fasttrack was even bigger than today

I'm not so sure, most drivers went from F3 to F2, on occasion they would leap to F1, but back in the 70's into 80's, F1 cars had around 450-550 bhp. so roughly 2 to 3 times what a f3 car had. When Senna moved into F1, they were just moving up to 800bhp turbo engines. By 1986, they qualified with 1,500hp and raced with 1,200hp.
Senna was one of the exceptions.

Originally Posted by chunder

Prost was always tied in with Elf and Renault and decided initially to go with McLaren to learn, and I think turned someone down very early in his career did he not?

From what I remember, Prost was one of the elf drivers that came through the Winfield race school. He was signed to Mclaren in 1980 because he was a Marlboro driver. But he left because he had many suspension failures that year and Renault wanted to sign him.

Originally Posted by chunder

also he was not as heavily backed financially as Senna who got the best rides.

Really? You may want to fill me in with that.
I know he won the Formula Renault championship in 1977, then moved to F3 in 78 before winning the French and European F3 championships in 1979.
He was backed by Elf and Renault through these years then Marlboro sponsored him too.
Senna in 1981 was funded by his father. He "retired" at the end of 1981 because of family pressure and once his family saw how unhappy he was his family decided to back him properly for a last effort.
He returned to the UK and took up Dennis Rushens offer of a season of FF2000 for £10,000.

Originally Posted by chunder

He was amazing in karts and junior stuff though, perhaps the best ever

He won conclusively in 1981 and 1982 in every category before driving a one off F3 race for WSR which he won in 1982.
The following season he had got sponsorship from Brazil and dominated the F3 championship.
Senna was offered a F2 drive for 1984 but had tests for Toleman, Williams, Brabham and Mclaren.
Brabham had to turn him down because Piquet wouldn't share the team with him. He turned down Mclarens offer for paid drive in 1984 in F2 because he wanted to be master of his destiny.
Murray Walker used to state how incredible Hamilton was because he won every championship in his second season. With Mclaren backing.
Yet a generation before Senna won every championship in his debut season on his way to F1.