Asian Le Mans Series

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Sportscar365

Series promoter Mark Thomas confirmed a change in the regulations, which will see teams and drivers score points on their best four of five races, in order to help entice additional entries to join the championship from the second round of the season at Fuji next month.

Yes that will surely prompt universal interest.

They are getting desperate.

Looking at Fuji, regretting divorce of Super GT yet Mark?

[Purist]

My understanding is that was also a decision on the other series' (Super GT's) side, and NOT a call made by the AsLMS.

This can't can't make its "partners" not back out, can it?

[Deleted]

In that case I cannot decide whether it was a mistake or good move from SGT's own point of view

[Purist]

I don't think there was a good way to make it work. Super GT re-jigged their schedule, because their international round moved from Sepang to Buriram, and from June to October. I'd also imagine that the AsLMS crew thought that August 10 was too soon after Inje.

At least August 31 will be interesting, racing-wise, in Japan, with the Pukka 1000km at Suzuka, and the Fuji 3 Hours.

And before people come on with comments about how the series should have waited a bit longer to start its season, well, that can make scheduling an even bigger problem. Maybe the other weekends that the AsLMS had looked at for Fuji were already full.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Purist

At least August 31 will be interesting, racing-wise, in Japan, with the Pukka 1000km at Suzuka, and the Fuji 3 Hours..

Well apart from the fact that no one will be able to see the Fuji race

I hadn't realized they managed to schedule their only Japanese round to be happening on the same weekend as the single biggest domestic - or probably the biggest overall - sportscar event of the year. On top of the non existent publicity they'll now get it also means there won't be any GT300s on the grid even as guests (except maybe some ancient Taisan Porsche IIRC). We may give whatever reasonings for the Super GT breakup, but that clash is simply stupid. On the same level as those F1 Austin - NASCAR season finale and WEC - Petit Le Mans clashes of the past...

And yes, yes, the other weekends might have been full at Fuji, but it's not like it's the only circuit in Japan. And even if it was, how about sharing the weekend with WEC? But I guess that would be too logical.

[Purist]

I don't think the WEC would go for that, even if the AsLMS wanted to. (If the WEC felt they were getting a good enough crowd on their own at Austin, I doubt that they would agree to "partner" with the USCC.)

Yes, there are other Japanese circuits, but how many of them are currently homologated for Sports Prototypes with engines of over 2000cc displacement (i.e. LMP2s)? It's been a few years since Okayama (Aida) hosted the LMS machinery. I don't know that Autopolis has hosted larger Prototypes since the Group C days. It's been several years since the JLMC visited Sugo or Motegi as well. Also, compared to Suzuka and Fuji, those others aren't really even on the radar.

[Deleted]

All of those tracks (even Autopolis) are Grade 2 minimum, ie still LMP2 and LMP1 eglible. And just because they don't have the gigantic F1 pit complexes and VIP hospitality areas and seas of asphalt runoffs don't mean AsLMS (or WEC for that matter) couldn't head there without issues. They are fine tracks - and IMO Okayama is still my favourite Japanese track. These approx 10 car grids and spec "support" series would do just fine...

As for Fuji doubleheader, if having shared weekend with separate races would be so extremely hard for some reason, then (even more preferably) integrate the grids for that one race as ILMC used to do. You could have 40+ car ACO grid in Asia for the first time since...?

I mean yes the first response I'm expecting to hear now is "but the AsLMS guys would be left to the backseat while WEC takes all the headlines". That argument works better with USCC or something since NO ONE, I repeat NO ONE (not even the diehard fans) is watching this series on its own - not that they could even if they wanted - so the argument is pointless. Furthermore, while the AsLMS entries would obviously be buried under the P1s and stuff, the teams would still get international TV time and get their names on the overall result sheets.

It's a win win. If GT300 could do it so could AsLMS. I may not like this series as a concept as it's doomed to die off on it's own, but if integrated with the world series it could have bit of a future. If not for couple of Asian races then at least for that one race at the very least.

But again too logical. Instead, we will once again have obscure separate series running tiny separate grids separately. Cannibals.

[Purist]

Even within grade levels, there are smaller graduations. For instance, a few years ago, the Nordschleife had a Grade 2 rating, so it could accommodate up through GT2 cars. However, it was not a full Grade 2, as GT1s and LMPs were not allowed.

The WEC doesn't want to take the chance of being "shown up" by a "feeder series" in a market where the audience "doesn't know any better". At least, that is, I think, a part of it. It wouldn't be that hard to "show up" the WEC in the LMP2 class at least. The WEC would insist on having its own classes recognized as being separate entities from the AsLMS runners. Finally, I don't think the WEC will go for having non-LM cars on its race grid, even if they dropped the CNs and it was just the GT3s.

I would say that most of the WEC"s "arrogance" comes from the FIA side. If some is coming from the ACO side, it's probably just a matter of trying to suck up and look "worthy" to the FIA.

My favorite Japanese circuits?
1. Suzuka
2. Autopolis
3. Sugo
4. Okayama (Aida)
5. Fuji
6. Motegi

The old Fuji would have been second, or (with chicanes) third.

[Deleted]

Wait you're saying Nordschleife was previously Grade 2 at some point? I thought it had been Grade 3 min for as long as the rating system had existed.

But yes I agree that it's all down to FIA's stubborn attitude...

[TF110]

Maybe they want the respective series to have their own races? The aslms wont get off the ground running on the backs of other racing series. It may help grid sizes, but not much of a help for aslms itself. Itll fail or succeed for other reasons like interest from teams. Its looking like why bother if youre running in GT, when you can do SuperGT with gt3 cars and have a shot at winning the gt300 class. I think new rules for car eligibility will go a long way for series like this.

[The Snout]

Originally Posted by TF110

Maybe they want the respective series to have their own races? The aslms wont get off the ground running on the backs of other racing series. It may help grid sizes, but not much of a help for aslms itself. Itll fail or succeed for other reasons like interest from teams. Its looking like why bother if youre running in GT, when you can do SuperGT with gt3 cars and have a shot at winning the gt300 class. I think new rules for car eligibility will go a long way for series like this.

Agree with this. Propping up grids is all well and good but being part of WTCC or something isn't going to make five more P2 cars appear. And if your motivation isn't a shot at Le Mans then as a GT team why would you bother with this series when there are better choices.

Been following this series last year and now and want it to establish itself even in a modest way, but with bugger all tv and even offering Le Mans places the carrot and interest just isn't there.

You're in Asia fellas, what works elsewhere might not work here. Need to find value for a team in Asia to bother running a P2 or GTE.

[TheMightyM]

And the blows keep on coming. John Dagys tweets:

Both the Python Ferrari (chassis damage) and Team ATL Wolf (no spares) have been withdrawn from #3HInje. Down to 6 total entries.

[TF110]

Ouch. Well, at least youre basically guaranteed a podium!

[Deleted]

TF110 and Snout, yes I understand your point but when you have sub 10 car grids in your neverheard-series you do what you must and not mess around with standalone weekends pretending to be the headliner. Maybe when if it would be on the healthiness level of ELMS (which I too hope would co-exist with the world series but whatever) but in this case no.

Anyway this six car grid might just be the lowest ever for any series running more than Grand Prix distance (I say that because of the famous Indy fiasco and obviously there are minor sprint series with small grids). Even the previous incarnations of this series and the latter half 1992 World Sportscar Championship had more entrants, and they were proper entrants not fillers running non compliant machinery. Congrats AsLMS, you are doing history.

Updated:

*DEMONSTRATION*
Fuji 1999: 23 cars (3x LMP, 2x LMGTP, 7x LMGTS, 4x LMGT, 5x GT500, 2x GT300)

ASIAN-PACIFIC LE MANS SERIES
Cancelled before launch

ALL JAPAN LE MANS CHALLENGE
Sugo 2006: 12 cars (2x LMP1, 4x LMP2, 3x LMGT1, 3x LMGT2)
Motegi 2006: 12 cars (3x LMP1, 4x LMP2, 2x LMGT1, 3x LMGT2)
Okayama 2006: 20 cars (5x LMP1, 6x LMP2, 3x LMGT1, 6x LMGT2)
Sugo 2007: 10 cars (2x LMP1, 2x LMP2, 2x LMGT1, 4x LMGT2)
Fuji 2007: 10 cars (2x LMP1, 2x LMP2, 3x LMGT1, 3x LMGT2)
Motegi 2007: 11 cars (2x LMP1, 4x LMP2, 2x LMGT1, 3x LMGT2)
Okayama 2007: 10 cars (2x LMP1, 3x LMP2, 2x LMGT1, 3x LMGT2)

ASIAN LE MANS SERIES I
Shanghai 2008: CANCELLED
Okayama 2009: 23 cars (7x LMP1, 2x LMP2, 4x LMGT1, 10x LMGT2)
Shanghai 2009: CANCELLED
Zhuhai 2010 / ILMC : 23 cars (6x LMP1, 1x LMP2, 1x LMPC, 2x LMGT1, 8x LMGT2, 4x GTC, 1x GTH)

ASIAN LE MANS SERIES II
Shanghai 2013: CANCELLED
Ordos 2013: CANCELLED
Inje 2013: 8 cars (2x LMP2, 1x LMGTE, 5x GTC)
Fuji 2013: 20 cars (2x LMP2, 1x LMGTE, 6x GTC, 11x SuperGT/GT300)
Zhuhai 2013: 8 cars (2x LMP2, 1x LMGTE, 5x GTC)
Sepang 2013: 14 cars (3x LMP2, 2x LMGTE, 6x GTC, 3x GTC-AM)
Inje 2014: 6 cars (2x LMP2, 1x CN, 3x GT)

[Deleted]

Oh here we go

As a result, the event will go down in the books as having the fewest number of starters at a major endurance race, breaking the previous seven-car starting field in the 2003 FIA Sportscar Championship race at Nogaro.

[Pontlieue]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Anyway this six car grid might just be the lowest ever for any series running more than Grand Prix distance

113 years ago, in 1901, the Gordon Bennett Cup had only 3 starters. But apart from that, I can't think of any major race with less than 6 starters.

[The Snout]

Originally Posted by Chiana

TF110 and Snout, yes I understand your point but when you have sub 10 car grids in your neverheard-series you do what you must and not mess around with standalone weekends pretending to be the headliner. Maybe when if it would be on the healthiness level of ELMS (which I too hope would co-exist with the world series but whatever) but in this case no.

Anyway this six car grid might just be the lowest ever for any series running more than Grand Prix distance (I say that because of the famous Indy fiasco and obviously there are minor sprint series with small grids). Even the previous incarnations of this series and the latter half 1992 World Sportscar Championship had more entrants, and they were proper entrants not fillers running non compliant machinery. Congrats AsLMS, you are doing history.

Fair enough, I'll cop being an undercard on a shared weekend. What I'm more in agreement with was the point that the series will fail or succeed on team interest. I don't think sharing a weekend will add genuine compliant cars to the grid. Neither will stand alone it seems.

With the news of 6 cars for Inje and that being the case now in the second year of returning, management really need to realise that they've had enough time to see racing teams in Asia aren't buying what they are selling. But what do you do ? Shared weekends, be the undercard, be humble, accept it's going to be small fields for now, aim for baby steps.

6 cars is disappointing but I'll still be following, I can do humble.

[Deleted]

It's not really the 'second year' is it though, they've been trying the same formula with slightly different approaches since the turn of the century, failing every single time. You would have thought they'd learn. And it's not like the world economics are in any upswing.

Btw I don't think either grid integration would necessarily add anyone - although when you look at those old Zhuhai grids you could argue that some of those guest entries wouldn't have been there if it was just low key demonstration reserved for Asian entrants, which is kinda what these are. However, I don't see the grid being any smaller either - not that it realistically even now could be - so there would be no hurt in mixing it up with the big series. Then at the very least you could have non-LeMans WEC race with more than 30 cars. I know, such saying would've sounded utterly ridiculous just a couple of years ago in ACO racing, but that's the world we now live in. And it's down to cannibalization.

[Deleted]

It will be hilarious if ACO is foolish enough to try the Grand-Amish split proto-GT start they've been enforcing this year outside Le Mans, imagine three P2+CN group long ahead of the three GT3s before they've even seen the green flag

This one will bear strong resemblence to Indy GP 2005 in any case as you have the two virtually unbeatable Ferraris of Schumacher (Oak, ultimate favourite) and Barrichello (Eurasia) at the front, while looooong way at the back the Jordan (Craft-Bamboo) just wants to the podium and the Minardis (AAI-RSTRADA) hang on there.

[TF110]

Joining supergt or wec races wont make the series look better. It cant stand on its own? Well then, it fails.

[Deleted]

Well let it fail then. And it will.

[Deleted]

Dagys saying the stands looked more packed than @ Kansas

[The Snout]

Thanks for the pic. Looks dry.

[KA]

...and Oak won by a little matter of 10 laps apparently...

Once Richard Bradley, who led early on, handed the Eurasia car over to his team-mates, Ho-Pin Tung in the Oak car was lapping 10-15 seconds a lap(!) faster than Eurasia at times.

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/asian...nates-3h-inje/

Can we just give them the title now and cancel the rest of the series?

[Deleted]

While it was the lowest ever starting grid for 'major race' anywhere, 5 finishers isn't as the 2003 Nogaro FIA Sportscar race had four running at the end and 96 Monaco GP had 3+1, and I'm sure there are more - maybe in even this series' history. Too lazy to check

But yes kill it. Kill it with fire.