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Old 19 Sep 2015, 20:19 (Ref:3575015)   #7326
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I still don't see how the VW issue compares with the GM issue. GM knew of the issue for a decade before the US Government went after them for it. And just a couple of days ago, a Federal Judge did declare that GM can be held liable in criminal and civil court proceedings, but the execs involved weren't charged.

On my Moral Compass, cheating a reg and it becoming a consumer advocacy issue (arguing that people got ripped off) is a less significant offense than knowing of something that was injuring and killing people and not doing anything about it for about 10 years. That's even worse, IMO, than the Ford Pinto fuel tank filler neck scandal. Ironically, that didn't kill sales of the Pinto, and GM's sales didn't slow down after the ignition switch deal.

And on the Toyota thing, I guess that does show how little people know about cars nowadays, something that CBS exploited with the Audi "unintended acceleration" scandal.

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Old 19 Sep 2015, 21:13 (Ref:3575038)   #7327
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The world’s largest automaker has admitted selling 482,000 such diesels since 2009, California and U.S..... Volkswagen is the world’s biggest auto company, outselling Toyota and General Motors this year......
VAG is the company of biggest sales/revenue($261b vs Toyota $255b. 3rd, which is GM had $155b), but, as of 2014, Toyota's profit was far bigger($19 billion vs VAG's $12 bi), which is quite curious to be honest. Toyota's much more efficient by making far bigger gains from less sales. But I digress.

The $18 billion fine is just a possibility right now but that is huge(almost Toyota's 2014 profit, confortably the highest of all auto makers)
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Many have viewed diesel as a promising green technology that could grow as the nation heads for more stringent fuel economy standards.
Aren't diesel engines intrinsically more powerful and with better fuel economy? I always thought their handicap was producing much more polution If that's not the case, what' the advantage of petrol cars, then?

If this fine and other law suites really comes, I think VAG's motorsport activities might be seriously jeopardized for a while.

Disgusting action by VW, anyway
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Old 19 Sep 2015, 21:33 (Ref:3575041)   #7328
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Lets be honest. Toyotas problem was not lying to governments. It was pedal misapplication/the floormats jamming the accelerator.
FYI, the floormats jamming the accelerator turned out to be completely bogus. Toyota recalled on that just to make themselves look better since, no matter how true it may be, blaming the customer always looks bad.
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Old 20 Sep 2015, 00:07 (Ref:3575122)   #7329
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Lets be honest. Toyotas problem was not lying to governments. It was pedal misapplication/the floormats jamming the accelerator. That can be overcome with holding the brakes or shifting to neutral but people didnt do it. GM was a different issue which was failing to recall a defective part which they knew of. Thats more closely alligned to the VW deal.
OT:
blindly defending toyota....All car manufacturers have demons in the closet. Toyota knew for years about a deadly flaw and continued to build the cars in this way which killed innocent people....
Same story with GM and the ignitions.

Audi/VW manipulation of the EPA emissions testing does not have the same immediate consequences of the Toyota and GM incidents. It's bad, and a set back for diesel cars but jeezus please take off the Toyota colored glasses TF110....
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Old 20 Sep 2015, 01:08 (Ref:3575166)   #7330
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OT:
blindly defending toyota....All car manufacturers have demons in the closet. Toyota knew for years about a deadly flaw and continued to build the cars in this way which killed innocent people....
Umm...No. Sorry for continuing OT a bit longer, but I can't let this matter go untouched - I've seen Toyota get too much undeserved crap about it.

At the end of the investigations it turned out there was nothing wrong with the cars. Intense investigation found that the reported cases no attempt to use the brakes were made(those onboard computers record EVERY input the drivers make), indicating the problems to be drivers hitting the wrong pedals. Toyota was unable to find any flaws in the software during the recalls.

The claim that the cars couldn't be stopped even with full brake application was suspicious to begin with - no car with brakes that can't overpower the throttle would ever be approved for sale in the US. Sure, it could happen on older cars with worn brakes, but these reports were coming in regarding NEW cars.

Yes, there were some suspicious e-mails that let to congressional hearings, but nothing came of THOSE either - turns out they were just discussions of potential problems with drive-by-wire controls, and someone in management wanted more testing to make sure they were safe. Testing which, it was later shown, WAS done with more than satisfactory results.

At this point you may be wondering why haven't you heard of this before now? That's because it was not widely reported by the US mainstream media. There were a few below-the-fold/buried-deep-inside articles on it, but it was largely ignored because it didn't fit the American News Motto: "Your One-Stop Shop For AAAAAAAAAAAAHH!!!!!!"

Also, contrary to early reports, nobody actually died from these supposedly flaw-induced accidents.
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Old 20 Sep 2015, 02:36 (Ref:3575204)   #7331
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Thanks Formula Fox. Just because I like Toyota doesnt mean I feel they can do no wrong. The unintended acceleration was bogus. I just put a slash between pedal misapplication and floormats because the latter was what they fixed. Even NASA was unable to find any fault in Toyota, big difference to the VW GM cases.
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Old 20 Sep 2015, 03:25 (Ref:3575221)   #7332
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Even NASA was unable to find any fault in Toyota
NASA, NHTSA, IIHS.... In fact, the only "investigation" that found any issues was one by ABC News that turned out to have been funded by a couple of families involved in litigation against Toyota over the matter. Even the floormats likely didn't need to be changed, but it at least had enough of a basis in potential reality to take care of regardless.
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Old 20 Sep 2015, 04:43 (Ref:3575260)   #7333
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I was always of the belief they changed the floormats to 'save face' and appease the government witch-hunt, as it was called.

Onto the rumor front, was there anything more on JPM during the cota race broadcast?
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Old 20 Sep 2015, 10:21 (Ref:3575337)   #7334
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I was always of the belief they changed the floormats to 'save face' and appease the government witch-hunt, as it was called.
The floormats were changed before the matter became a big deal - it may have been a "save face" type of decision, but it wasn't the result of the government witch hunt.

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Onto the rumor front, was there anything more on JPM during the cota race broadcast?
Not that I heard... But I was watching on Fox Sports 2, and part of it got pre-empted by the start of a college football game(because another game on FS1 ran long), so for all I know it was talked about then.

Or it could have been talked about at some other point when I was able to pay attention.
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Old 20 Sep 2015, 11:07 (Ref:3575342)   #7335
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Onto the rumor front, was there anything more on JPM during the cota race broadcast?
IIRC they said he'll get a Porsche 919 test at Bahrain.
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Old 20 Sep 2015, 15:24 (Ref:3575420)   #7336
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IIRC they said he'll get a Porsche 919 test at Bahrain.
Hinday said it during quali, no idea if it was discussed during the race specifically.
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Old 21 Sep 2015, 10:56 (Ref:3575663)   #7337
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Jenson Button is preparing to call time on his glittering Formula One career after 16 seasons in the sport, with an official announcement likely before this weekend’s Japanese Grand Prix.

Button has been in negotiations with McLaren over next year but Telegraph Sport understands he has decided to bow out on his terms after another season in an uncompetitive car.

The 35-year-old is expected to combine a sportscar drive in the Le Mans-style World Endurance Championship with a media career, rumoured to include the revamped Top Gear.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mot...rmula-One.html

But who has seats left? Can't imagine Nissan cutting it right now after the McLaren/Honda experience.

Last week there was this prediction from Webber.

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Old 21 Sep 2015, 11:04 (Ref:3575667)   #7338
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Mark Webber was doing the interview rounds a couple of weeks ago, and when the subject moved onto Jenson's future plans he had a wry smile when he talked about "other possibilities" apart from F1. I didn't think any more of it then than Mark having a bit of fun but with McLaren-Honda going nowhere fast and no other big team to take him on he may as well go. My F1 watching friends tell me that there is a general expectation he will move to the WEC as well...

Let's start the speculation. Jessica Michibata, big in Japan, etc. - Button to take (one of?) the soon-to-be vacant Toyota seat?
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Old 21 Sep 2015, 11:09 (Ref:3575672)   #7339
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After Conways weekend I can see 2 vacant seats opening up soon.
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Old 21 Sep 2015, 11:16 (Ref:3575676)   #7340
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Well hang on, that was a bad mistake but it's not as if he's had a poor season to go along with it. I think it will take another big off, at Le Mans, in the wet before his seat is in serious danger

But I thought the rumour was that Wurz & Sarrazin could both be off anyway, hence there possibly being two seats vacant from the off.
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Old 21 Sep 2015, 11:44 (Ref:3575685)   #7341
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Where Button will go now is not immediately clear. He has had talks with Porsche about joining the World Endurance Championship, though McLaren would first need to release him from his contract.
(note source though) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/for...aren-stay.html
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Old 21 Sep 2015, 12:03 (Ref:3575693)   #7342
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Jenson's attitude/comments during the Singapore post-qualifying stuff sort of struck me as someone who was done with the team.
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Old 21 Sep 2015, 12:10 (Ref:3575695)   #7343
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I see Kobayashi getting a drive at Toyota before Button though.
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Old 21 Sep 2015, 13:38 (Ref:3575725)   #7344
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The driver market is going to be very interesting.

On top of new talent coming in, if I was a guy like Lotterer I would be ringing up Porsche day and night trying to jump ship. There are only so many 919s to go around.

I just wish Nissan had come up with a credible effort.
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Old 21 Sep 2015, 13:43 (Ref:3575729)   #7345
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The driver market is going to be very interesting.

On top of new talent coming in, if I was a guy like Lotterer I would be ringing up Porsche day and night trying to jump ship. There are only so many 919s to go around.

I just wish Nissan had come up with a credible effort.
If I was in an Audi (Or Toyota) I wouldn't be jumping ship just yet. Given a lot of Audis drivers have been so for a long time, it'd be silly to jump as soon as someone had a faster car. If it then swapped back, would you try and jump back to Audi? Think they'd be willing to take someone straight back?

I predict the factory drivers for Audi staying put. Porsche and Toyota will be more interesting. And Nissan...well.
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Old 21 Sep 2015, 13:55 (Ref:3575732)   #7346
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If I was in an Audi (Or Toyota) I wouldn't be jumping ship just yet. Given a lot of Audis drivers have been so for a long time, it'd be silly to jump as soon as someone had a faster car. If it then swapped back, would you try and jump back to Audi? Think they'd be willing to take someone straight back?

I predict the factory drivers for Audi staying put. Porsche and Toyota will be more interesting. And Nissan...well.
To be honest, I reckon Porsche's full-season drivers will stay put and the only change might be in the Le Mans-only car if the F1 calendar prevents Hulkenberg from having another run.
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Old 21 Sep 2015, 13:59 (Ref:3575734)   #7347
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If I was in an Audi (Or Toyota) I wouldn't be jumping ship just yet. Given a lot of Audis drivers have been so for a long time, it'd be silly to jump as soon as someone had a faster car. If it then swapped back, would you try and jump back to Audi? Think they'd be willing to take someone straight back?

I predict the factory drivers for Audi staying put. Porsche and Toyota will be more interesting. And Nissan...well.
From the Audi perspective I'm not really talking about the pace of the car - more whether there will be a car at all in years to come - http://www.autobild.de/artikel/audi-...t-6078603.html
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Old 21 Sep 2015, 14:00 (Ref:3575735)   #7348
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From the Audi perspective I'm not really talking about the pace of the car - more whether there will be a car at all in years to come - http://www.autobild.de/artikel/audi-...t-6078603.html
If Audi drivers jumped every time someone said Audi were joining F1, they'd have no drivers.
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Old 21 Sep 2015, 14:12 (Ref:3575738)   #7349
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To be honest, I reckon Porsche's full-season drivers will stay put and the only change might be in the Le Mans-only car if the F1 calendar prevents Hulkenberg from having another run.
And if Porsche were to make changes in their LMP setup, their upcoming GTE drivers should not be discarded as options.
Michael Christensen I believe have a better shot at a LMP seat than Button and Montoya!
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Old 21 Sep 2015, 15:17 (Ref:3575760)   #7350
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From the Audi perspective I'm not really talking about the pace of the car - more whether there will be a car at all in years to come - http://www.autobild.de/artikel/audi-...t-6078603.html
There would be still at least two more seasons (2016, 2017) and the official widthdrawal announcement might not come until 2017.
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