[LM24] Le Mans Test Day - (22/23) 24th April 2011

[Purist]

Well, we do know this much. If you can hold your opposition off in the first 2 sectors, it's going to be damn hard for them to pass you in the Porsche Curves.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by CTD

We know for a certain that the new 908 has more mechanical grip than the 908 HDI-FAP, therefor there are only 2 reasons why the 908 HDI-FAP is faster thru the Porsche Curves than the 908.
1. The new 908 is running less downforce than the 908 HDI-FAP, therefor running slower thru high downforce corners.
2. The most probable reason.... Peugeot is sandbagging.

For me reason 1 makes a lot of sense. The aero of the old 908 was designed for a more powerfull engine. They ran with a certain amount of downforce, knowing that their big V12 engine, was able to push the car through the air to a certain top speed. Now the engine is heavily restricted. As a consequence the top speed has go down a lot (only 323 km/h in session 1), but they still have plenty of downforce to go fast through the Porsche curves.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

For me reason 1 makes a lot of sense. The aero of the old 908 was designed for a more powerfull engine. They ran with a certain amount of downforce, knowing that their big V12 engine, was able to push the car through the air to a certain top speed. Now the engine is heavily restricted. As a consequence the top speed has go down a lot (only 323 km/h in session 1), but they still have plenty of downforce to go fast through the Porsche curves.

Well no.
Because the 908 HDI FAP has received cuts in power similar to the downsizing of the 908 and R18. Therefor not to lose too much time, the higher downforce that the "unlimited" V12 could pull, has to be cut down to something the "limited" V12 can pull.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Mike E

Any video knocking about from today?

There's a few bits and bobs on youtube. The Robertson car and a proto getting in a mess on cold tyres.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfpcFNsKRCY

I'll have a look what else I can find.

[Gingers4Justice]

There's no point trying to compare Audi and Peugeot until 3.00pm CET on June 12th.

Until then, we know nothing. Aside from the fact that Audi and Pug were probably more interested in developing their cars for June than giving us an inidication of how really fast they are, either or both manufacturers weren't running at full capacity - or "sandbagging" if we really must.

Spa is unlikely to give us a true indication either. There will be more cars on a smaller circuit in a race which may prove to be won by the car that can corner around the moving chicanes - GT2 cars, as the ACO might call them - with the fewest bumps.

Let's enjoy the uncertainty that this type of motor racing offers.

[WMUCarGuy]

Originally Posted by NightStalk3r

009 is kaput untill Prodrive build a new engine. they have no spares.

DSC said there were spares, but they decided not to install them as they would have the same flaws as the ones that were already blown.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by CTD

Well no.
Because the 908 HDI FAP has received cuts in power similar to the downsizing of the 908 and R18. Therefor not to lose too much time, the higher downforce that the "unlimited" V12 could pull, has to be cut down to something the "limited" V12 can pull.

You are missing my point. Oreca can not run with less drag, because no aero development is allowed on grandfathered cars.

[Bentley03]

Had to work all day yesterday (), but kept a close eye on live timing.

LMP2 - seriously messed up (for numerous well documented reasons), a complete shambles. I've (personally) lost interest and will hope the class gets properly sorted in time for 2012. The words wasted and opportunity come to mind.

LMP1 - impossible to tell the extent of the gulf between petrol and diesel (if it exists at all). My perception, from simply watching live timing, is that Audi (of the big two) will have come away from the Test Day the happier.

One question - did anyone get a feel for how many laps Audi and Peugeot were able to run on a tank of fuel?

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by sssssssss

could be that too, but so far, as long as they've been in sporscar racing, they were very concerned with the speed thing and with proving everyone they're the fastest - both in the early 90s and from 2007 on, every single year. it's about national pride and all that, i suppose.

Not necessarily. See Silverstone last year, they didn't even outqualify the Audis and the factory car was already ahead of both Audis when McNish's car died.

Anyway, I'm not reading anything into the times, but hopefully it's going to keep being close between the two factories. Also, AMR = shambles.

[nobster]

I hoped the gap between the petrol LMP1 and diesel LMP1 cars would be smaller or even non existent, will this mean that those oil burners will have the race for themselves....again...?
Is it possible for the ACO to react before the race come June?

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

One question - did anyone get a feel for how many laps Audi and Peugeot were able to run on a tank of fuel?

I had a quick look at the timing pdfs. The Peugeot #7 did a number of 12 lap stints, while the Audis never did more than 11 laps on a tank of fuel. Advantage Peugeot1

[Adam43]

If that pans out in the race then Audi will need to make an extra pitstop approximately every 8 hours. 0.5s a lap advantage should do it - how long are pitstops this year any new comedy rules?

[Le Vieux]

Originally Posted by nobster

I hoped the gap between the petrol LMP1 and diesel LMP1 cars would be smaller or even non existent, will this mean that those oil burners will have the race for themselves....again...?
Is it possible for the ACO to react before the race come June?

I think any further reaction from the ACO on this front is unlikely. They've had several years to get it right and have consistently failed to do so. That leaves me thinking that their intention is to ensure that there will be no equivalence. Such action ensures that competition to Peugeot is instantly reduced to one team.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by nobster

I hoped the gap between the petrol LMP1 and diesel LMP1 cars would be smaller or even non existent, will this mean that those oil burners will have the race for themselves....again...?
Is it possible for the ACO to react before the race come June?

why would they? The fastest petrol car was the 2009 Pescarolo chassis#8.....The only new factory entered car from the UK was not quite up to standard and I would actually be surprised to see them back this season. But you cannot blame the diesel brigade for a big failure such as this.
and for the sound fans: The Pugs have become rather audible, while also the Audis added a bit more volume....but sounding much more like a tractor when leaving the pit lane.

I watched the first half of the afternoon session (until the emergency safety car rehearsal) walking back from the beginning of Tetre Rouge towards the pitlane, and it struck me that the Audis looked more stable going through the fast esses than the Pugs but that is purely a subjective observation.

Regarding the times set, it almost looked like there was some sort of agreement between the to teams that 3.27 would be the target to go for, in order not to worry ACO too much about the lap times. It would still 3.30 laps in race pace....

The highest topspeed was clocked by Montagny,doing a nifty 340 kph.

[GT6]

Equalisation between petrol and diesels is almost impossible when you take into account that the two big boys have a budget that dwarfs the private entries and the back up and experience to ensure that even on a level playing field between power units they will always have the ability to develope something.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

I had a quick look at the timing pdfs. The Peugeot #7 did a number of 12 lap stints, while the Audis never did more than 11 laps on a tank of fuel. Advantage Peugeot1

Brilliant, many thanks for that!

[SPOONERBORO]

Wow what a trip. 25,000 others must of thought so too....

Audi's amazing if not very very quiet. Thumbs up to the new Ferrari 458 (pitlane limiter noise is to die for!!)

mmmm Aston Martin oh dear - glad i bought that flag now lol....

uploaded some pics to facebuk!! if anyone wants a looksie

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/fb...3425.729441606

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

I had a quick look at the timing pdfs. The Peugeot #7 did a number of 12 lap stints, while the Audis never did more than 11 laps on a tank of fuel. Advantage Peugeot!

For the record, during the safety car simulation the #7 Peugeot managed 13 laps. Pretty impressive if you know that the tank size was reduced from 81 to 65 liter this year.

[Aysedasi]

That really is impressive on such a substantial reduction......

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by Simmi

There's a few bits and bobs on youtube. The Robertson car and a proto getting in a mess on cold tyres.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfpcFNsKRCY

I'll have a look what else I can find.

Thanks!

[PascaLM]

Several impressions :

I don't know is someone was sandbagging, but I think that the smoking R18, with its washing-machine noise, has an exceptional behaviour in the lowest curves. The use of the front tires is awesome. Its trajectory is noticeably smoother and far better than the Peugeot's. Does this justify the 2 or 3 seconds of difference ?
CTD is right, too many parameters to find the truth but one thing is certain : the petrol cars owners are duped once again, still nearly ten seconds behind the diesels (320/325 km/h vs 335/340).

The big disappointment came from AMR. Not ready, yet.

Aside this, the battle in GT will be splendid and we probably will see several cars under 4'00'' during the qualifying sessions. Nice noises also, I confirm what Acid09 says : fantastic 458 (with a different exhaust configuration apparently).

[henk4]

Originally Posted by PascaLM

Several impressions :

I don't know is someone was sandbagging, but I think that the smoking R18, with its washing-machine noise, has an exceptional behaviour in the lowest curves. The use of the front tires is awesome. Its trajectory is noticeably smoother and far better than the Peugeot's. Does this justify the 2 or 3 seconds of difference ?
CTD is right, too many parameters to find the truth but one thing is certain : the petrol cars owners are duped once again, still nearly ten seconds behind the diesels (320/325 km/h vs 335/340).

The big disappointment came from AMR. Not ready, yet.

Aside this, the battle in GT will be splendid and we probably will see several cars under 4'00'' during the qualifying sessions. Nice noises also, I confirm what Acid09 says : fantastic 458 (with a different exhaust configuration apparently).

you may have missed the final quick laps of the Pugs. Three Audis and two Pugs were within 0.6 of a second at the end of the day....

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Le Vieux

I think any further reaction from the ACO on this front is unlikely. They've had several years to get it right and have consistently failed to do so. That leaves me thinking that their intention is to ensure that there will be no equivalence. Such action ensures that competition to Peugeot is instantly reduced to one team.

This year regulations state if there is greater than 2% performance difference between different fuel/technology types adjustments will be made, this is not clear cut however as they also factor in the chassis, drivers, budget etc.

What is know is 2010 P2 pole was 3.33, a 2011 petrol P1 is heavier but has 15% more power, wider tyres and improved aero therefore there's little reason not to think such a car is not capable of nudging under this mark and I believe Highcroft and Rebellion will do just that.

That still means there's a gap to the diesels but the grandfathered Pescarolo heading the list points more to Pescarolos professionalism and experience than having the quickest car.

[PascaLM]

Originally Posted by henk4

you may have missed the final quick laps of the Pugs. Three Audis and two Pugs were within 0.6 of a second at the end of the day....

Yes but Sarrazin was supposed to do his traditional best lap but missed it, and there wasn't too much cars on the track.
I think the global roadholding of the R18 is better.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by JAG

This year regulations state if there is greater than 2% performance difference between different fuel/technology types adjustments will be made.

This is not clear cut however as they also factor in the chassis, drivers, budget etc.

What is know is 2010 P2 pole was 3.33, a 2011 petrol P1 is heavier but has 15% more power, wider tyres and improved aero therefore there's little reason not to think such a car is not capable of nudging under this mark.

That still means there's a gap to the diesels but the grandfathered Pescarolo heading the list points more to Pescarolos professionalism and experience than having the quickest car.

Could there be an agreement between the petrol teams to do some sandbagging?????? If this part of the regulation is correct, and I think it is, they can get a adjustment of the competitive balance just by going slow. It is a funny world. (And I am sure Henri will raise his voice again after this weekend.)