The Lydden Classic - 27/28 July

[Tony Harman]

Just thought I'd kick this off before Mr M realises...
So next BARC Classic round Lydden Hill 27/28 July. I quite like this little circuit, usually a good atmosphere, no posers, everyone there to have fun, and 20 laps to boot. Not everyone agrees though and it's a long haul for those up north so I suspect grids could be down.
So who's driving, whos's marshalling, who's spectating ?

[Slowcoach]

Hi Tony - thought I'd give you your first reply....We CT boys arent invited this year as there was only a single figure turnout last year - of which I was one - which probably contributed at the scene of my greatest triumph - my only pole ! Then the scene of my greatest disappointment - the axle let go after 6 laps of that session and I sat and watched the race later that afternoon thinking 'if only...' maybe I'll come and spectate again...

[Stephen Green]

Not sure if I'm there or not Tony. I'll check the availability sheets this weekend.

[Peter Mallett]

Not me I'm afraid.

[Stacy]

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
Not me I'm afraid.

I will be, I'll probably enter Group 1 and Pre-90. Fancied an allcomers Jag race, but then I saw the XJS with no lights and a coffee table on the back at Snett..

[Steve Higgs]

not me either, I'll still be in New York, (work, not fun). :-(

[Tony Harman]

Looks like this is going to be a short thread then - Shall I start the "Silverstone Classic" now.....

[Tony Harman]

Better haul this back up the list - it's supposed to last another two weeks yet !

[spnixon]

I'll not be there either - engine is still being repaired after Snetterton and I had an ante-natal class (!) booked for the Saturday anyway - meaning I would have started from the back of the grid if I did enter.

I'll probably come along on the Sunday to spectate.

Yeah, someone start the Silverstone thread...

[denlyon1]

Well I'll be there, in the asthetically offensive Raven Rover Vitesse "95", no CT unfortunately, but entered in the 2 x allcomers races.

It was a great shame at Snetterton, that we had so many people critisise the "tatty" exterior of the Raven Rover, everyone knows the standards they work to, anything more than a minor glance would have spotted the attention to detail in the areas that count (safety, structural strength, and engine)

It is planned to have this shell "pretty" in time for Silverstone in August. In the mean time, we'll just have to marvel at it's ability, instead of it's looks.

Cheers

Den

[Stacy]

Originally posted by denlyon1
It was a great shame at Snetterton, that we had so many people critisise the "tatty" exterior of the Raven Rover, everyone knows the standards they work to, anything more than a minor glance would have spotted the attention to detail in the areas that count (safety, structural strength, and engine)

Den,

It was the presentation which people were unhappy with, not the preparation. As I'm sure is obvious that matters when it comes to appearance to the public, as well as the image of both yourself and the club.

Since the Raven cars were very tidy when they first came out, it was surprising and disappointing more than anything else. I don't think it's out of order to mention that I was very pleased when they first came out with the Rovers, and in fact it might be a surprise to find I pushed hard to get a Rover the best prepared car award.. So I've hardly harboured negative feelings for Raven.

However, I don't think it's fair to say everyone knows the standards they work to, purely because they simply haven't been around long enough to establish a reputation. In that time we've seen very nice cars, and a fair amount of failures, so perhaps the jury is still out.

That said, it's clear there's nothing wrong mechanically with the car which is obvious to anyone - however that is I think missing the point. It's about image of all involved which I'm sure you understand people are concerned about. We need to strike a balance between club racing, and not being regarded as ****box racers which lessens us all.

It's also ironic that the part which attracted the criticism would have been the cheapest part of the car to sort..

To be fair as well, I think you'll find that you'd have received a quiet word from almost every series I know of, so I really don't think it was unreasonable.

It's a good car and sounds great, the more cars the better, so all that's being said is to play the game..

Anyway, see you at Lydden.

Stacy

[Peter Mallett]

I'll second the appearence statement. Our Championships need to present a favourable image. Minor dents and knocks are part of racing unfortunately so they tend to be accepted. I noticed the level of internal preparation on the Rover but then I'm a competitor, the general public don't unfortunataly. They need to see a tidy photogenic car.

There is a debate in another part of this board which talks about the level of reporting given to club meetings. I believe part of the problem is the impression given by some that club racers at CTRC and similar level don't really care about presentation so when we put on better racing displays in our cars than (say) Moss, Dron etc. in perfectly prepared expensive machinery, they get the write-ups and we get a one line mention.

So, I'm pleased your rover is working well (jealous more like) but I also would love to see it in its finished glory.

[peter_harrison]

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
I'll second the appearence statement.

Hi everyone. Been to a number of events as a spectator over the last few years, prior to that I raced occasionally some years ago in a saloon series with a Civic and also occasional rallies in Ireland.

Anyway, intro over, as a spectator at the Snetterton event I have to say I'm a little puzzled by the Rover drivers comment and presume it was meant in a more lighthearted way. The car would have embarrassed me. The crowd and the CoC and so forth, can't see the cage, the engine and the brakes - they see presentation and where presentation is poor below the skin usually lurks tat.

Also I have to say that this assumption is normally correct, because to my mind the way to build a car is to complete the shell and build the bits on top of it. No point building a mansion on sand as they say.. Thus it's surprising the thing wasn't painted ages ago - outside, inside and underneath.. The reasons are obvious.

Sticking your head underneath a competition car is a pretty useful yardstick when telling the true quality of prep work.

This isn't meant to stir things up, but it just seems to me that the posters original tone seems to suggest he felt hard done by. In more serious championships he would have been thrown out, so a little more acceptance of the situation might be appropriate in this case.

That's my tuppence worth!

Peter.

[Peter Mallett]

Welcome Peter.

You make a very good point and maybe its a subject for another topic. Anybody who watches motorsport must have an opinion on the quality of the cars they watch racing. As a driver you do tend to get a bit blind to these things in the pursuit of power, handling or whatever.

So a question. If you had the choice of spending a sunday watching (say) a 2CV race full of pristine cars or a faster Touring Car race full of partially finished cars, which would it be? All things being equal they both provide a suitable level of excitement.

[peter_harrison]

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
So a question. If you had the choice of spending a sunday watching (say) a 2CV race full of pristine cars or a faster Touring Car race full of partially finished cars, which would it be? All things being equal they both provide a suitable level of excitement.

If I had a choice I'd still be racing myself and may still do, as for spectating - either would appeal. The difference in lap time is negligible really, and the 2cv's are entertaining indeed.

I suppose the test is do I get a bit annoyed watching wrecks, and the answer is yes - If I wanted to see scrapper banger racing I'd go to the oval. :-O

Peter.

[Tony Harman]

Hi Peter - er... you wouldn't have had someting to do with Clubmans in the past, (as in the Harrison), and now Locost would you ???

[spnixon]

Another point - if I'm in a race and close by a car that hasn't been painted, I'd be ****ed off. He can be that more aggressive in every corner because he knows the car will be in the spray shop anyway, I'd have to stay well clear.

[denlyon1]

Folks... emotive responses, everyone...
My initial comment was a little tongue in cheek, but with a few ironic undertones...

If any of the people that complained, had come and spoken to the team, they would have had the full story to hand. I have been waiting to race since Thruxton back in March, but various external contractors have let us down. Raven pulled out all the stops to get me a car together, which ran, lasted, and was safe and structurally sound. (my original shell, is still in a paintshop somewhere)

Imagine my dismay when I get told by the Eligabilty scrutineer, that there was a risk that I still may not get to race, because the car was not pretty enough.
Peter, your comment surely assumes that the driver of the unpainted car, is less of a sportsman than the driver of the painted car ???

Ah well, didn't mean to stir up such a hornets nest.... see you all at Lydden. (does anyone know the timetable yet ?)



Den

[Peter Mallett]

Den,

Don't think anybody was being emotive just emphasising a point I guess. The only thing I meant to highlight was the need for good presentation in these days of "professional" amateurs. We all need to make an effort and I hope your car will be finished soon.

I'm reminded of the story about JYS. When he first started racing he brought new lwvel of ettiquette to the paddock. He would offload his car then have the trailer wheels all turned to the same position. He'd wash and clean the trailer and tow car before he washed his race car.

So its his fault really

[spnixon]

Originally posted by denlyon1
Peter, your comment surely assumes that the driver of the unpainted car, is less of a sportsman than the driver of the painted car ???

Den

No - just a hard racer who makes the most of every possible factor.

[peter_harrison]

Originally posted by denlyon1
Imagine my dismay when I get told by the Eligibility scrutineer, that there was a risk that I still may not get to race, because the car was not pretty enough.

Imagine everyone elses dismay when they saw it.. I think "not pretty enough" is a tad of an understatement.

I do think you're taking this the wrong way though, as I read it they're not having a personal dig which needs to be defended - they appear to be simply after an acceptance and understanding of their point, and that you will do something about it. An apology if you like.

[Stacy]

Originally posted by peter_harrison
they appear to be simply after an acceptance and understanding of their point, and that you will do something about it. An apology if you like.

Exactly Peter,

The club aren't preparation Stasi, but in my personal opinion it was a step too far in the appearance stakes. The message seems pretty clear to me, so hopefully it won't be lost on Den.

So long as he accepts the point (and books a paint job) I think we can all be happy.

Worth mentioning that one of our club members called our Comp Sec before the meeting and explained he'd had an altercation at the Irish TOCA meeting and that while the bodywork will be straight it won't be finished - and would that be OK. The reaction from the club was very supportive as you'd imagine, so maybe the compounding problem here is one of perceived attitude too ?

Stacy

[denlyon1]

Folks,

To be honest I was gutted originally that my car wasn't going to be the Orange Peril I thought it was.

But having seen the dedication and hard work that the Raven guys put into building this car, just to get me out racing again, I didn't think I had anyplace to complain about the paintwork.

We had a chat with the Eligablity Scrutineer, and agreed that we would make the car presentable for the Silverstone event (now only a month away)

All points made here, have been fully understood, and we agree with the public presentation aspect whole heartedly.

Sorry this appears to have got a little heated.. it wasn't my intention at all.

bottom line is, like you guys, I just want to get out and race.

Cheers

Den

[Stacy]

Den,

Good stuff.

On a more serious note, Orange is copyrighted you know.. Can't you have green or red or something !?

[Peter Mallett]

Er,

There is a Red car as well.