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Old 27 May 2011, 16:42 (Ref:2886773)   #1
Banger racer
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Ranking – top 10 single-seater championships

Hi there, not sure if this has been done before as I’m fairly new to Ten Tenths but my mates and I were trying to rank the 10 most important current single-seater championships in order of importance. This is what we came up with – would be interested in any comments and whether you think we’ve got it about right!

1st Formula 1
2nd Indy Car
3rd GP2
4th Formula Renault 3.5
5th F2

6th GP3
7th F3
8th Formula Renault 2.0
9th Auto GP
10th Formula Ford
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Old 27 May 2011, 17:48 (Ref:2886794)   #2
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What a joke. Auto GP, FFord, and F2 and no Indy Lights? Indy Lights actually leads somewhere, unlike the other three. And no Formula Nippon, either? Awfully Eurocentric, that list.


EDIT: No Superleague, either?!
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Old 27 May 2011, 18:09 (Ref:2886803)   #3
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Originally Posted by ptclaus98 View Post
What a joke. Auto GP, FFord, and F2 and no Indy Lights? Indy Lights actually leads somewhere, unlike the other three. And no Formula Nippon, either? Awfully Eurocentric, that list.


EDIT: No Superleague, either?!
Superleague could also be discounted on the grounds that it hasn't yet providded much impetetus for the careers of the participating drivers whilst winning the title doesn't seem to generate much publicity.
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Old 27 May 2011, 18:58 (Ref:2886829)   #4
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Superleague could also be discounted on the grounds that it hasn't yet providded much impetetus for the careers of the participating drivers whilst winning the title doesn't seem to generate much publicity.
It does, however, generate money for the driver, more than you can say for Auto GP, FFord, and F2.
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Old 27 May 2011, 22:34 (Ref:2886920)   #5
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As much as I dislike GP3/Formula Lawnmower, I would without hesitation say it and the primary F3 series (Brit/Euro) rank above F2... just look at the calibre of the bulk of drivers taking part, it's incomparable.

Also, how can we compare a class with cars in a single championship (like GP2, GP3 etc) to F3, which has various series (Euro, British, German, Euro Open etc), or F.Renault 2.0 (Eurocup, UK, ALPS etc) of varying levels of importance?

PS. Auto GP does have prize money.
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Old 28 May 2011, 08:37 (Ref:2886996)   #6
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Can't resist stirring this debate....

F1
GP2
Renault 3.5
Indycar
GP3
F3
F2
Renault 2.0 (Euro)
Indy Lights
UK FFord

I can't see Auto GP or Superleague as "important" to a driver's cv although I enjoy watching them.
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Old 28 May 2011, 09:47 (Ref:2887021)   #7
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I think it depends where you want to end up in single seaters. There are two different career paths.

I won't comment too much on US racing as my knowledge is stretched, but for example if F1 is your goal, then Atlantics, to me, are a waste of time, but essential if you're going to go for Indy Cars.

In terms of importance it's hard to verify - there are so many 'new' series that it's difficult to determine how important they are until they have been around a few years.

Here is how I see the motorsport ladder at the moment, in Europe:

----------F1----------

----------GP2----------

--Formula Renault 3.5/Superleague--
F2
F3/GP3

--Formula Renault 2.0--
Formula Renault BARC

Formula Ford/Intersteps/FBMW/
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Old 28 May 2011, 10:45 (Ref:2887043)   #8
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Originally Posted by ptclaus98 View Post
What a joke. Auto GP, FFord, and F2 and no Indy Lights? Indy Lights actually leads somewhere, unlike the other three. And no Formula Nippon, either? Awfully Eurocentric, that list.


EDIT: No Superleague, either?!
Way to mock a newbie who was clearly just looking to have a fun debate!

I took the list more as a ladder to the top. In which case FNippon is not so relevent these days (shoot me down in flames but the last notable name I can remember is Ralph Firman). Superleague also isn't a feeder formula, its more out on its own wing. Both great series to watch though and both clearly carry some significance which would put them in the list on a pure 'prestige' basis.

I disagree on FFord too - I think that is still clearly a key feeder formula despite its star being a touch diminished.

Indy Lights I agree with as it is an important series. But the Eurocentric thing - well, motorsport, especially the ladder to F1 is Eurocentric. That might not be right, but it is.
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Old 28 May 2011, 11:12 (Ref:2887052)   #9
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Originally Posted by jondownunder View Post
As much as I dislike GP3/Formula Lawnmower, I would without hesitation say it and the primary F3 series (Brit/Euro) rank above F2... just look at the calibre of the bulk of drivers taking part, it's incomparable.

Also, how can we compare a class with cars in a single championship (like GP2, GP3 etc) to F3, which has various series (Euro, British, German, Euro Open etc), or F.Renault 2.0 (Eurocup, UK, ALPS etc) of varying levels of importance?

PS. Auto GP does have prize money.
I doubt their purse is nearly as big as Superleague's, although I have been occasionally wrong. Besides, look at what Superleague has done for guys like Craig Dolby
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Old 28 May 2011, 11:13 (Ref:2887053)   #10
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Way to mock a newbie who was clearly just looking to have a fun debate!

I took the list more as a ladder to the top. In which case FNippon is not so relevent these days (shoot me down in flames but the last notable name I can remember is Ralph Firman). Superleague also isn't a feeder formula, its more out on its own wing. Both great series to watch though and both clearly carry some significance which would put them in the list on a pure 'prestige' basis.

I disagree on FFord too - I think that is still clearly a key feeder formula despite its star being a touch diminished.

Indy Lights I agree with as it is an important series. But the Eurocentric thing - well, motorsport, especially the ladder to F1 is Eurocentric. That might not be right, but it is.
IndyCar ain't on the ladder to anything.
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Old 28 May 2011, 11:26 (Ref:2887061)   #11
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I won't comment too much on US racing as my knowledge is stretched, but for example if F1 is your goal, then Atlantics, to me, are a waste of time, but essential if you're going to go for Indy Cars.
Probably for the best as Atlantics don't even exist any more But point taken if you substitute Indy Lights, I agree.

I see F2 placed above F3/GP3 again. Hmm. It may be more powerful, then technically higher in the motorsport ladder when sorted by bhp, but if we're looking at importance then went downhill fast after the reasonable 2009 grid. If F1 people were looking for future stars, I'm pretty confident they'd be looking for talent in GP2 > FR 3.5 > F3/GP3 first. There are too many nobodies in F2 - some may be unproven talents, but many are clearly hopeless, and would probably be nowhere at F.Renault 2.0 level. This is not an anti-F2 rant - I'm fine with it taken as "Super Formula Palmer Audi", it gives a route for drivers without big budgets, it has a great calendar this year, the Williams prize test, but let's not kid ourselves about its importance.
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Old 28 May 2011, 12:49 (Ref:2887079)   #12
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It does, however, generate money for the driver, more than you can say for Auto GP, FFord, and F2.
It used to, will it still do so after Sonangol money is gone? Their web site returns error 404 price money not found
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Old 28 May 2011, 12:54 (Ref:2887081)   #13
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It used to, will it still do so after Sonangol money is gone? Their web site returns error 404 price money not found
That's a good point, of course the whole argument re: Superleague may be moot considering that it probably won't even exist this season.
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Old 28 May 2011, 13:29 (Ref:2887090)   #14
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Well they've been announcing a number of drivers lately, still sounding rather last minute and desperate a week away from round 1 at Assen.
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Old 28 May 2011, 14:14 (Ref:2887112)   #15
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Wow, loads of good points there, thanks!

I agree it is a bit Eurocentric and wasn't sure about Superleague as its yet to get started!

Might have to rethink the list over the bank holiday!

Off to watch the GP2 race now.
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Old 28 May 2011, 18:05 (Ref:2887202)   #16
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I think there are two different ranks here. For progressing your career, I would say the importance would be as follows:

F1
IndyCar
GP2
Indy Lights
WSbR 3.5
GP3
British F3
European F3
F2
Auto GP

Obviously, IndyCar and Lights are important in America, but are totally irrelevant nowadays in trying to get to F1, which all the others in the list are ultimately aimed at.

Now, if you want to talk about prestige and quality of drivers at this current time, then the following:

F1
IndyCar
GP2
Superleague
WSbR 3.5
British F3
European F3
GP3
Auto GP
F2

That's my opinion, though I must say comparing American and European open wheel can be like comparing apples and oranges. In some areas it's hard to judge as they can be very different.
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Old 29 May 2011, 00:33 (Ref:2887306)   #17
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I think there are two different ranks here. For progressing your career, I would say the importance would be as follows:

F1
IndyCar
GP2
Indy Lights
WSbR 3.5
GP3
British F3
European F3
F2
Auto GP

Obviously, IndyCar and Lights are important in America, but are totally irrelevant nowadays in trying to get to F1, which all the others in the list are ultimately aimed at.

Now, if you want to talk about prestige and quality of drivers at this current time, then the following:

F1
IndyCar
GP2
Superleague
WSbR 3.5
British F3
European F3
GP3
Auto GP
F2

That's my opinion, though I must say comparing American and European open wheel can be like comparing apples and oranges. In some areas it's hard to judge as they can be very different.
Indeed. Esteban Guerrieri was much better than Victor Garcia in Europe, but in America, Guerrieri has the best team in the biz and has no wins, yet Garcia is in a midpack team and won lights to flag this year.


But I disagree about the quality of the fields today. Many have made the argument the WSbR has a deeper field than GP2(The argument has been strengthened this weekend) and GP3 is head and shoulders above anything F3 level, IMO. I'd also argue that Indy Lights has a much more accomplished field than F2 and possibly even Auto GP(I'll do my homework before being too sure on the latter.)
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Old 29 May 2011, 08:55 (Ref:2887377)   #18
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If it's Eurocentric then it's a symptom of the format gravitating back to that part of the world. Indycar seems to be staggering about and a pale shadow of CART in the '90s and perhaps this and FNippon were strengthened by F3000s failing as F1's feeder formula. Having said that, GP2's suffered a bit in this respect of late - perhaps we were spoilt with Rosberg and Hamilton?

I'd put F3 above GP3, which is a step too far from Bernie. F3 has a historic basis but it's one that has been justifiably gained. F2's position seems about right - having a full grid certainly helps but I think we've seen that the guys that do well here have potential, hopefully Stoneman will make a recovery and go some way to proving his talent and Palmer's showing flashes in GP2 that will surely improve with experience - he's hardly out of his depth, is he?

FRenault 3.5 seems to have established itself too from its origins - I'm sure it was subjected to criticism in its early years but you can hardly knock a series with Vergne and Ricciardo going up against each other amongst others, can you?

No issues with FFord and Renault on that list either - they've had years to establish themselves, decades in the case of the former. And Superleague is pretty much dead in the water, no surprise as the whole soccer/motorsport concept was pretty tenuous.

Last edited by shatners bassoon; 29 May 2011 at 09:09.
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Old 30 May 2011, 06:13 (Ref:2887949)   #19
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It does, however, generate money for the driver, more than you can say for Auto GP, FFord, and F2.
How is it generating money for drivers.. They are paying to drive, and from what I hear is a lot this year ,(+£800k) and prize money for drivers last year still out standing.??Hence lack of driver anouncements.
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Old 30 May 2011, 10:28 (Ref:2888075)   #20
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think asia is future. drivers in europe hav to look to formula nippon again.
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Old 30 May 2011, 11:40 (Ref:2888132)   #21
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think asia is future. drivers in europe hav to look to formula nippon again.
I'm sure some will look to Formula Nippon (like Caldarelli), but it's pretty much a career path for when you've given up on F1 ambitions these days. It's a shame that it has virtually no presence outside of Japan anymore, as it's still a great series.
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Old 30 May 2011, 23:03 (Ref:2888451)   #22
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I'm sure some will look to Formula Nippon (like Caldarelli), but it's pretty much a career path for when you've given up on F1 ambitions these days. It's a shame that it has virtually no presence outside of Japan anymore, as it's still a great series.
It's good for aspiring sportscar drivers.
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Old 31 May 2011, 10:57 (Ref:2888641)   #23
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I'm sure some will look to Formula Nippon (like Caldarelli), but it's pretty much a career path for when you've given up on F1 ambitions these days. It's a shame that it has virtually no presence outside of Japan anymore, as it's still a great series.
Yup, it's almost as if GP2 or has taken over from Nippon as that 'potential F1 level driver parking lot' with FR 3.5 now almost like F3000 was in Europe....

GP3 still has a way to go to supplant F3 as the main career rung at their particular level though imo.

F1
GP2
FR 3.5
F3
GP3
F2
FR 2.0
F Ford/ etc
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Old 31 May 2011, 16:39 (Ref:2888840)   #24
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F1
IndyCar
GP2
FR 3.5
F2
GP3
F3 Brit/Euro
Indy Lights
German F3
Fr 2.0 Eurocup

Superleague looks in a pretty bad way this year, UK renault has looked strong but the field is very small this year unfortunately.
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Old 31 May 2011, 16:59 (Ref:2888857)   #25
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Yup, it's almost as if GP2 or has taken over from Nippon as that 'potential F1 level driver parking lot' with FR 3.5 now almost like F3000 was in Europe....

GP3 still has a way to go to supplant F3 as the main career rung at their particular level though imo.

F1
GP2
FR 3.5
F3
GP3
F2
FR 2.0
F Ford/ etc
think i agree with chunty in terms of where series are in a top 10, tho i really dislike this kind of debate because in the end it depends on a drivers particular ambitions, cash, background, networking abilities, management, etc etc.

have this debate next year and without a doubt i'd put fr3.5 ahead of gp2. those in it who know their stuff think it's as good as gp2 (albeit missing a decent powerplant). next year it'll be better, especially if the cost stays similar to it is at the moment.

i'd say putting gp3 ahead of f3 really overrates the influence of being on the f1 bill - in reality it's more of a hindrance if you happen to have sponsors and guests and so on.
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