ALMS 2012 Discussion

[AGD]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

I've been wondering, why can't GT3 cars be adjusted to perform at the same level as the GTE cars? Surely on pace they can be equalised? That'd open the way for the SLS, R8 LMS, MP4, etc to be entered in the US series helping to boost the grid numbers (maybe?).

I suppose it could be done, but why introduce another layer of confusion and politics to a class when it may not need it? Desperate measure may be needed if GT starts to falter, but I don't think the ALMS is to that point yet. If that does happen, I'd like to see a whole new GT rules structure outside of the GT1/2/3/4 schematic.

[broadrun96]

The Unlimited races could also bring in new Ed Browns, not the first year but if the ALMS can keep going. Reading the release about the car made it sound catered to some wanna be pros who remember Can-Am and want to have some fun. Yes it's a very optimistic and longterm view but too painful to be pessimistic too much.

[NaBUru38]

Unless GTE cars get into the GT World Championship, the ACO and IMSA will probably be forced to allow GT3 cars into GTE.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Danske

Yes, but would an actual Can-Am car be as safe, easy, fun and comfortable as these are advertised to be?

Safe... probably not as safe, but I'm not qualified to comment on. Fun, definately. Comfortable? really, people buy racecars because they are comfortable?

$485k for a car that will be worth less than $100k in a couple of years, that if the series folds, it will be questionable that you can run in much of anywhere.

Or $200-300k, for a car with actual race history, that will appreciate over time.

If you've got the $485k, buy a DP, or LMP-C...

[LeMans.pt]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

What he is saying, is Audi AG won't pay. If a qualified independent, with enough money came along..... You don't know whether Pickett has the budget or not, or wishes to spend what it costs.

No. What he was saying then was that the regional Audi dealers had to pay for them to come. For example, next LMS is at Portugal, and if Audi Portugal pay for it, Joest would come to race the R18 at Estoril. That was the context of his words. Regional Audi Dealers, not someone with enough money to.

[LeMans.pt]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

If you've got the $485k, buy a DP, or LMP-C...

... or even a cost-cap LMP2, or a GTE. The Mclaren MP4-12c (not a GTE, i know...) his being sold for $400k, race ready.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by LeMans.pt

No. What he was saying then was that the regional Audi dealers had to pay for them to come. For example, next LMS is at Portugal, and if Audi Portugal pay for it, Joest would come to race the R18 at Estoril. That was the context of his words. Regional Audi Dealers, not someone with enough money to.

Can you show me specifically where Ulrich has stated that privateers can not race Audi's?

[LeMans.pt]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Can you show me specifically where Ulrich has stated that privateers can not race Audi's?

That was almost a year ago, but i will look for the original article.

Anyway, AFAIR, he said that clearly that running at the ALMS was easy because there was only one company to deal with (Audi North America) when at the LMS there was one for each country they race at.

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20100910/ALMS/100919992

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by AGD

So here are the details of the Unlimited Racing Championship: http://www.americanlemans.com/primar...cat=news|16255

It will garner interest for one year and then slowly, or not so slowly lose interest till it is gone.
One thing that helped kill the real Can-Am was the sameness (Chevy, then Porsche show)
of the vehicles.
The rags often were full of rumors of new challengers to the Chevrolet, or Porsche, which kept gear-heads hoping but a series cannot live on rumors, and this one does not even have that.
Seven to eight hundred horse power, unless they very small small-block engines, is easily streetable hp nowadays, so they are not going to impress anyone, and as I said after the first year novelty, it will be more of IMSA same old, same old spec. racing. (As much as I disliked the France family's GARRA, they at least did not try to pretend it was not spec. racing, as the IMSA did.)
At the same time GARRA is implying they will try something different in the future.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

If you've got the $485k, buy a DP, or LMP-C...

The running costs for a DP or LMP-C would be more...but you would be in a series that potentially garners more interest as far as advert/sponsorship investment from being in DP or ALMS main series.

[Purist]

Bob, most people, even those who are mechanically inclined and know a bit about cars, don't know much of anything about hot-rodding. So yes, 700-800hp is still VERY impressive to a lot of people.

Without a blower, there aren't any real road cars with larger displacement engines that manage 100hp per litre. Now, things like the McLaren F1 and Ferrari Enzo do, but those are NOT daily drivers by any means. They also require absurd amounts of money for repairs, maintenance, and regular tune-ups. You can't just go tens of thousands of miles with them, even new, and only have to do oil changes.

As for modding an engine up to those power levels. You're practically going to replace everything in that engine with high-compression parts. Then, you have to advance the timing and make various other adjustments. There will be necessary changes to the fuel system. The prop shaft, half shafts, gearbox, and differential will all have to be replaced as well. How much time and money is that going to cost? And the thing will only run well at those higher performance levels, so it can't run well/happily on the street.

And, according to Mr. Callaway, above 400-500hp, you NEED added downforce to keep the car reasonably stuck to the road.

So, calling those power levels "easily streetable" is a complete load of BS.

I'd prefer to have an improvement in the prototype field in the main event, but this could be interesting, and should put some of the chest rattling back into the live-at-the-track experience.

I actually find it pretty sad if an authentic Can-Am car is really only worth $200-300k. Hopefully, at least the factory cars are with more than that now.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

It will garner interest for one year and then slowly, or not so slowly lose interest till it is gone.
One thing that helped kill the real Can-Am was the sameness (Chevy, then Porsche show)
of the vehicles.
The rags often were full of rumors of new challengers to the Chevrolet, or Porsche, which kept gear-heads hoping but a series cannot live on rumors, and this one does not even have that.
Seven to eight hundred horse power, unless they very small small-block engines, is easily streetable hp nowadays, so they are not going to impress anyone, and as I said after the first year novelty, it will be more of IMSA same old, same old spec. racing. (As much as I disliked the France family's GARRA, they at least did not try to pretend it was not spec. racing, as the IMSA did.)
At the same time GARRA is implying they will try something different in the future.

Quite frankly, I find most motorsport bores me to tears these days.

It used to be 5, 10, 15 years ago, I eagerly awaited every motorsport related magazine every month or week, knew every shred of news there was gleaned off the internet and from 1st hand sources, watched every race I could especially back when everything was easily available on Fox Sports and Espn, attended what races I could afford to go to.

And now the autosports and other magazines gather dust for over a year unread, I found other interests online to talk about, I don't go out of my way to attend races. Nascar could not care about, the irl I hate, F1 haven't watched a race for 3 years, sportcar racing, touring car racing and rallies/rally raids is all there is left for me.

This is an old but new championship(URC). I have often asked why F5000 could not be updated or Can Am and someone had the same idea. If people want to buy these cars and run them, fine by me. Might be more interesting to watch than another Porsche spec series or other spec series.

I hope the ALMS gets it together, sells out to some new blood and puts together a good weekend package of racing for the future. Time for some rule overhauls and schedule overhauls of what should consist of big endurance weekends.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by Purist

Bob, most people, even those who are mechanically inclined and know a bit about cars, don't know much of anything about hot-rodding. So yes, 700-800hp is still VERY impressive to a lot of people.

Without a blower, there aren't any real road cars with larger displacement engines that manage 100hp per litre. Now, things like the McLaren F1 and Ferrari Enzo do, but those are NOT daily drivers by any means. They also require absurd amounts of money for repairs, maintenance, and regular tune-ups. You can't just go tens of thousands of miles with them, even new, and only have to do oil changes.

As for modding an engine up to those power levels. You're practically going to replace everything in that engine with high-compression parts. Then, you have to advance the timing and make various other adjustments. There will be necessary changes to the fuel system. The prop shaft, half shafts, gearbox, and differential will all have to be replaced as well. How much time and money is that going to cost? And the thing will only run well at those higher performance levels, so it can't run well/happily on the street.

And, according to Mr. Callaway, above 400-500hp, you NEED added downforce to keep the car reasonably stuck to the road.

So, calling those power levels "easily streetable" is a complete load of BS.

I'd prefer to have an improvement in the prototype field in the main event, but this could be interesting, and should put some of the chest rattling back into the live-at-the-track experience.

I actually find it pretty sad if an authentic Can-Am car is really only worth $200-300k. Hopefully, at least the factory cars are with more than that now.

Street Engines

SAR 615 - (1000 HP) PUMP GAS ENGINE
SAR 762 - (1150 HP) PUMP GAS ENGINE
SAR-811 HEMISPHERICAL HEADED PUMP GAS ENGINE (1325 HP)

This is just one of many engine builders.
At a tiny fraction cost a European sports car.

If you read so called hot-rod magazine or books, anyone, with a home garage, basic knowledge in engine building, and tools can build a big-block engine nowadays of six hundred or more hp.

Seven hundred does not take much more to achieve. With out any major changes, simply starting with a larger bore and/or stroke will put that engine into the seven hundred plus hp range.
One and one-half horse power per inch is EASILY achieved nowadays, on street pump gasoline, with the factory and after-market items available.

Unless one is daring, or a damn fool, Callaway's statement about 400-500 hp is bull-****.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by AGD

So here are the details of the Unlimited Racing Championship: http://www.americanlemans.com/primar...cat=news|16255

so rumours about the Unlimited Racing championship being a spec McLaren series were correct... just with the wrong car!

[joeb]

Dempsey Racing has provided some additional information regarding their P2 plans for next season. They want to run the Lola cost capped coupe, but don't have an engine for sure yet. They would like to run with Mazda, but Mazda hasn't committed to the LMP2 engine yet.

[Nick6]

So next year P2 has Tucker (?), United Autosports (?) and maybe Dempsey?

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Nick6

So next year P2 has Tucker (?), United Autosports (?) and maybe Dempsey?

Well, it depends on how you want to look at it. It sounds like Dempsey will only do the major enduros (Le Mans, Sebring, Petit) and not a full season in either the ALMS or WEC. As for United, I don't know/remember if they have announced any plans P2 plans for LMP2. As for Level 5, it sounds like they are planning on coming back to the ALMS in P2, but we'll see.

[Nick6]

United Autosports has a car entered in PLM.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Nick6

United Autosports has a car entered in PLM.

Yeah, I meant to say that I don't know what their plans for 2012 are.

[Speed-King]

And I think Zak Brown has repeatedly stated that a full time ALMS season is rather unlikely due to his close ties to NASCAR...

[Mal]

Murphy has tweeted rumour of a 2012 factory Viper programme

[The Badger]

Oh man , long overdue . Be great to see the back again ..... Who could be in the equation to run that programe then ?

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Mal

Murphy has tweeted rumour of a 2012 factory Viper programme

Really hope this happens. There was talk of it in Autosport a few months ago. 2012 is sooner than I expected but brilliant news if true.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Mal

Murphy has tweeted rumour of a 2012 factory Viper programme

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20110623/ALMS/110629932

[seanyb505]

Something tells me this would be more likely to come to fruition as a Grand-Am project, should it come to fruition.