McLaren - Lack of sponsors???....

[GTRMagic]

The big problem for F1 is that there are no more ciggie sponsors looking to mass market to everywhere in the world, and dont have a problem at throwing tens to hundreds of millions at the sport to get a multi-billion potential customer audience.

There would be very few businesses that use the same brand name across the world, that would have the same largesse in spending.

Vodafone isnt Vodafone all round the world. Neither is Mobil. Or Total.

[Mike Harte]

One mustn't always take what one reads/hears in the media literally. Just two out of many reasons for this is that, firstly, the statement may well have been taken out of context which may well then lead one to a wrong conclusion, and, secondly, it is always possible that the statement is made for a specific purpose and/or to send a message to other interested parties. Having said that and as written by others here, Ron Dennis is a highly skilled and experienced negotiator with potential sponsors, so I am fairly sure that he knows what he is doing.

However, on the matter of sponsorship, there is something that puzzles me which doesn't concern McLaren but does Ferrari. I cannot understand the reasoning behind the financial arrangements between Philip Morris and Ferrari, which to me, defies commercial logic. Although the relationship between the two are an open secret, it is only really known within the tight confines of the F1 circus plus a comparatively few savvy close followers of F1. Philip Morris are not allowed to and are therefore unable to promote their products, yet they pump millions into Ferrari each year and I can't for the life of me see what return they get for their bucks. The only reason that I am reminded that they have a financial partnership between the two is when someone mentions that it will be Philip Morris that will be picking up the tab for this or that driver, and that information is usually only relayed in the specialist media outlets that the vast majority of F1 fans would not even be aware of. I repeat, it puzzles me!

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

However, on the matter of sponsorship, there is something that puzzles me which doesn't concern McLaren but does Ferrari. I cannot understand the reasoning behind the financial arrangements between Philip Morris and Ferrari, which to me, defies commercial logic.

As far as I know, PMI use their links to Ferrari (and Ducati) as a flesh-pressing exercise; they invite local big money business people to events featuring those two premium marques and either do deals there or butter up said business people for future B2B deals.

Evidently it still works for them; cigarette advertising isn't banned worldwide so there are always new markets opening up - in the last few years their presence in India, Russia and other developing markets has grown (as a little Googling has just told me). I would surmise there are always people to impress, and what better way than a shiny red Ferrari racing car?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

The big problem for F1 is that there are no more ciggie sponsors looking to mass market to everywhere in the world, and dont have a problem at throwing tens to hundreds of millions at the sport to get a multi-billion potential customer audience.

There would be very few businesses that use the same brand name across the world, that would have the same largesse in spending.

Vodafone isnt Vodafone all round the world. Neither is Mobil. Or Total.

I could be wrong but I think but from what I've seen both Mobil and Total market themselves globally using their own branding, rather than marketing themselves with a subsiduary or alternative brand. Both have a huge presence in motorsport in general and are easily indentifiable, so because of this I wouldn't have thought it would make much sense to brand themselves otherwise.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I could be wrong but I think but from what I've seen both Mobil and Total market themselves globally using their own branding, rather than marketing themselves with a subsiduary or alternative brand. Both have a huge presence in motorsport in general and are easily indentifiable, so because of this I wouldn't have thought it would make much sense to brand themselves otherwise.

Esso is a Mobil brand, as is Exxon.. still alive as brands

Total has joint ventures and subsidiaries in many markets where the primary brand is not Total..

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Esso is a Mobil brand, as is Exxon.. still alive as brands

Total has joint ventures and subsidiaries in many markets where the primary brand is not Total..

I'm well aware of the subsiduary brands regarding Exxon/Mobil but as with last year's car, McLaren still retained the Mobil logo on the side of the airbox even though the Esso logo or whatever other logo was on the side pod.



Joint ventures and associating with other brands isn't uncommon and can be a very affective marketing tool. However, in the case of title sponsorship and from a marketing point of view, I would have thought a brand stands out better on its own. The RBS Six Nations is a good example, as is the NASCAR Sprint Cup, both are easily indentifiable.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Greem

As far as I know, PMI use their links to Ferrari (and Ducati) as a flesh-pressing exercise; they invite local big money business people to events featuring those two premium marques and either do deals there or butter up said business people for future B2B deals.

Evidently it still works for them; cigarette advertising isn't banned worldwide so there are always new markets opening up - in the last few years their presence in India, Russia and other developing markets has grown (as a little Googling has just told me). I would surmise there are always people to impress, and what better way than a shiny red Ferrari racing car?

I appreciate what you are saying, however, I don't think that it would cost PMI the 10s of millions that they pay Ferrari (or their driver/s) every year
just so that they can get access to the Paddock Club. I don't know how much Mr Ecclestone would charge PMI, but it certainly wouldn't be as much as they pay Ferrari.

[wnut]

Take note Ron, Bernie and the rest of the F1 strategy group, motor racing can deliver value to sponsors:


Penske's giant sponsorship ... only in America
An American report this week stated that Team Penske "now has sponsorship and partnership deals worth more than US$300 million".

Total Trib Media in Pennsylvania quoted 77-year-old Roger Penske saying: "It's amazing in this world today that we can say that all of our sponsors [in America] have renewed with us to go forward on multiple-year contracts, which gives us a great base to build on as we go into the future."


from

http://www.motoring.com.au/news/2015...e-text_content

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by wnut

Take note Ron, Bernie and the rest of the F1 strategy group, motor racing can deliver value to sponsors:


Penske's giant sponsorship ... only in America
An American report this week stated that Team Penske "now has sponsorship and partnership deals worth more than US$300 million".

Total Trib Media in Pennsylvania quoted 77-year-old Roger Penske saying: "It's amazing in this world today that we can say that all of our sponsors [in America] have renewed with us to go forward on multiple-year contracts, which gives us a great base to build on as we go into the future."


from

http://www.motoring.com.au/news/2015...e-text_content

This bolsters my statement above about not accepting everything that you read at face value. Team Penske may well have deals signed worth $300 million, but it would seem as though that covers his, I believe, 4 cars in the IndyCar series, his cars in the two Nascar series as well as his Aussie V8 team.

Suddenly, $300 million is not sounding so much as the headline suggests!

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

This bolsters my statement above about not accepting everything that you read at face value. Team Penske may well have deals signed worth $300 million, but it would seem as though that covers his, I believe, 4 cars in the IndyCar series, his cars in the two Nascar series as well as his Aussie V8 team.

Suddenly, $300 million is not sounding so much as the headline suggests!

Does not cover the Aussie V8s, still $50M a car where is Ron's $100M sponsor in F1?

Bernie and the smaller teams in skewed payment structures?

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

One mustn't always take what one reads/hears in the media literally. Just two out of many reasons for this is that, firstly, the statement may well have been taken out of context which may well then lead one to a wrong conclusion, and, secondly, it is always possible that the statement is made for a specific purpose and/or to send a message to other interested parties. Having said that and as written by others here, Ron Dennis is a highly skilled and experienced negotiator with potential sponsors, so I am fairly sure that he knows what he is doing.

However, on the matter of sponsorship, there is something that puzzles me which doesn't concern McLaren but does Ferrari. I cannot understand the reasoning behind the financial arrangements between Philip Morris and Ferrari, which to me, defies commercial logic. Although the relationship between the two are an open secret, it is only really known within the tight confines of the F1 circus plus a comparatively few savvy close followers of F1. Philip Morris are not allowed to and are therefore unable to promote their products, yet they pump millions into Ferrari each year and I can't for the life of me see what return they get for their bucks. The only reason that I am reminded that they have a financial partnership between the two is when someone mentions that it will be Philip Morris that will be picking up the tab for this or that driver, and that information is usually only relayed in the specialist media outlets that the vast majority of F1 fans would not even be aware of. I repeat, it puzzles me!

On the subject of Phillip Morris (RIP) read this interesting article. No wonder F1 misses them and they miss F1, I wonder what they do with all the cash apart from pay dividends.....

http://www.smh.com.au/business/motle...17-13gx1p.html

[Casper]

Ferrari bought a lot of CNC equipment from HAAS shortly after the announcement of HAAS entering F1 and HAAS in return are sponsoring Ferrari. It must be an interesting world up there in international trading land.

http://www.foxsports.com/speed/formu...rrari-f1-team/

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Casper

Ferrari bought a lot of CNC equipment from HAAS shortly after the announcement of HAAS entering F1 and HAAS in return are sponsoring Ferrari. It must be an interesting world up there in international trading land.

http://www.foxsports.com/speed/formu...rrari-f1-team/

Most likely a contra.. there is no mention of 'buying', only collaborating.. It would be cheaper to be a technical partner than to fund racing an F1 car on your own

[knighty]

more drivel from McLaren below, it seems they dont get the point......if I was a Honda employee I would be feeling quite deflated that the livery looks no different........but again it does seem like they are publicly bating new sponsors that they must pay up to get significant exposure on the car, I'm sure they must be negotiating.........but I guess any new sponsor wants to be sure they are a front running team in 2015 regularly on the podium before they commit big multi-year dosh ....... unlike last year.....

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117544

.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by knighty

more drivel from McLaren below, it seems they dont get the point......if I was a Honda employee I would be feeling quite deflated that the livery looks no different........but again it does seem like they are publicly bating new sponsors that they must pay up to get significant exposure on the car, I'm sure they must be negotiating.........but I guess any new sponsor wants to be sure they are a front running team in 2015 regularly on the podium before they commit big multi-year dosh ....... unlike last year.....

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117544

.

To quote Ron from that article, ''If it is just to make something more aesthetically pleasing, that is not enough reason for me.''

Says it all really about Ron.

[mikuni]

Exactly. Once again they are clearly stating they are not there for the fans. Their car is a corporate identity. Nothing more, nothing less.

I get the notion of not wanting to go to orange, I think that is a silly idea, but going to something more in tune with Honda surely makes sense, even from a purely corporate perspective.

I agree that Honda must be having second thoughts, or at the very least a little bit of a wake up call on what Formula 1 is now. Since they were last in F1 and surely since they were last supplying McLaren with engines, it is a vastly different world.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by mikuni

Exactly. Once again they are clearly stating they are not there for the fans. Their car is a corporate identity. Nothing more, nothing less.

I get the notion of not wanting to go to orange, I think that is a silly idea, but going to something more in tune with Honda surely makes sense, even from a purely corporate perspective.

I agree that Honda must be having second thoughts, or at the very least a little bit of a wake up call on what Formula 1 is now. Since they were last in F1 and surely since they were last supplying McLaren with engines, it is a vastly different world.

I don't see why Honda would be having second thoughts. With regards to branding, their logo is on the car and their name is part of the team name.

[Paradise City]

Isn't there some sort of Mclaren fan club you can join? I think Dennis is being a bit cranky here. It's a tough world getting sponsors or 'partners', you need to be able to turn heads and getting an eye catching livery is an easy way of doing that. Not to mention that many of the sponsors serve the very audience that Dennis seems to eschew.

[mikuni]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I don't see why Honda would be having second thoughts. With regards to branding, their logo is on the car and their name is part of the team name.

I can't remember over the last 20 years (or so) a single person I've spoken to about F1 that actually called McLaren, McLaren Mercedes (I mean in person, not on a forum). To the general viewer, I think very few people would notice the change. Sure we do, but we pay a little more attention.

If McLaren came out this year is a colour scheme that is different enough to cause people to ask "why?", then I think it would be much better for Honda. I'm not talking a massive shift to orange or even white and red, even retaining McLarens modern chrome colour would be fine, but perhaps with more of Honda's day glow red to hark back to the old Honda days.

Saying Honda would be having second thoughts is not perhaps correct. I'm more saying that McLaren could be doing more to welcome Honda and demonstrate to the world that they are proud to have Honda on board.

[chillibowl]

is it even something they could change at this point given that all their team kit, merch, and promotional materials for 2015 are either already made or are well on their way to being ready in time for people to buy it before and at OZ?