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16 Jan 2014, 22:57 (Ref:3354962) | #76 | ||||
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Good examples would be the V8 Supercars or the NASCAR Sprint Cup, where the grid are relatively homogenous in nationality and both series are huge successes. Quote:
Also, "future of motorsport" or not, I'm pretty sure that the average German racing fan doesn't care about these drivers and if he doesn't care about them, he won't buy tickets for races or watch DTM on TV. So unless these billywhatstheirnames start marketing themselves to the German audience, I highly doubt that DTM will ever be a meaningful series. Instead, it'll always a manufacturer-financed commercial. |
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16 Jan 2014, 23:23 (Ref:3354970) | #77 | |||
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17 Jan 2014, 13:35 (Ref:3355146) | #78 | ||
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the glory days are no longer. it's time to move on and adapt. or it'll end up like the btcc. if you think daniel abt is the future of german motorsport then german motorsport may as well pack up and go home. i can't comment on your other two examples (sven mueller looks like he's got a bit to go yet), but marvin kirchhofer is considered to be a very promising young driver and has already tested with audi this winter. these are global brands, and the "german" in "german touring cars" merely refers to the nationality of the three brands involved. as such it's way better for the series to have the absolute best talent driving their cars and showcasing their brands. suggesting they should just be sticking with german drivers smacks of the same protectionist attitudes the french have. and look where their national racing series are at the moment. |
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17 Jan 2014, 13:47 (Ref:3355151) | #79 | ||||||
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17 Jan 2014, 14:22 (Ref:3355165) | #80 | |||
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it's a compramise between our two viewpoints. i'm not saying that there should be just one or two big names per manufacturer, but that the young guys are absolutely essential to keep the series moving forward. |
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17 Jan 2014, 15:39 (Ref:3355200) | #81 | |||
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17 Jan 2014, 15:40 (Ref:3355202) | #82 | |||||
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I also doubt that the manufacturers do marketing campaigns with their non-German DTM drivers. Or does Mercedes commercials with Gary Paffett for British TV? Where were the BMW ad with Spengler for French/Canadian TV? And surely there have been some ads on Spanish TV with the Spanish DTM drivers, right? |
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17 Jan 2014, 16:19 (Ref:3355208) | #83 | ||
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i think the example you give of the bild coverage is more a fault of the newspaper and the organisers marketing. i don't know what the answer is, but it's not going to be fixed by turning the dtm back into an exclusive german thing. at the moment the dtm has precious few drivers paying for drives, which is generally regarded as a highly desirable way of running a series. the btcc isn't like that at all. in fact it's the other way around. it's like that because no manufacturers want to be involved to the extent that mercedes, audi and bmw are in germany. the tv advertising example is a red herring, because it's not about selling cars to people really any more. i believe every time bmw survey existing owners motorsport comes out surprisingly low on the list. it's marketing the product (and to be fair, the country) business to business and that sort of thing that matters, if they're still seeing value from that side of the programme then they'll stick with it. the fans are, as always in the really big manufacturers world, a minor consideration. sad, but true. bert - fair point about the legacy drivers. though maybe you could argue that if they've not (been allowed to?) saved the world and won the title by now then perhaps they'd be better off farmed out to some of the sportscar projects as a change of scenery. a couple of them really make you think "yes, but why?". |
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17 Jan 2014, 16:41 (Ref:3355221) | #84 | ||||||
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[1] When asked about why the press wasn't invited to off-season tests, he claimed that talking to the media would take away too much time from developing the car. Yeah, right. As if you can develop anything in this tight set of regulations. |
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17 Jan 2014, 16:51 (Ref:3355228) | #85 | |||
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Is it wrong for a driver to see DTM as a career destination with no thoughts beyond that? I wouldn't have thought so - it's a professional championship and offers paid drives so it's an attractive option (especially as some of the drivers have reached a point where their single seater career has stalled - usually for lack of finance to take the next step). I think the DTM grid is generally well balanced - they've got less of the ex-F1 drivers at the moment so maybe the big draw for Joe Public is missing but on the whole the drivers are a good mix of series veterans and young guns. |
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17 Jan 2014, 17:14 (Ref:3355245) | #86 | |||
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Also: Joe Everyman can't indeed be bothered to tune into DTM and that's a huge problem, so the DTM needs drivers Joe Everyman can relate to. Last edited by DS"; 17 Jan 2014 at 17:19. |
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17 Jan 2014, 17:20 (Ref:3355250) | #87 | ||
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and it's that reason why i can't stand the negative attitude towards the youngsters who ARE making it into the dtm fold. these guys are outrageously good at what they do. it's a thing of pride that they're more keen on dtm than they are on f1 nowadays. |
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17 Jan 2014, 17:31 (Ref:3355260) | #88 | ||
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that's the only reason i can understand why you're concerned to be honest, that there's been some very obscure choices from single seaters in recent years. but let me reassure you now, calado, mueller and felix da costa are all very worthy of their drives. |
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17 Jan 2014, 17:46 (Ref:3355283) | #89 | ||||
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17 Jan 2014, 18:04 (Ref:3355289) | #90 | ||
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I'm enjoying reading this discussion too much to throw in my two cents, so I'll throw in Allan McNish's instead, and say that the Scot agrees with the above.
He hated the DTM, couldn't wait to leave it, and only stayed because Audi didn't have a free LMP drive for that year. I'll get my coat... |
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17 Jan 2014, 18:06 (Ref:3355290) | #91 | |
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If drivers would be the only problem DTM has it would be healthy...
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17 Jan 2014, 18:55 (Ref:3355307) | #92 | ||
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Exactly! DTM has plenty of problems at the moment: The lack of any star driver, not even a German hero like Bernd Schneider was. The lack of mainstream attention, decling TV ratings and on-track attendance numbers. I mean, just take a look how empty Hockenheim was in the last season. Yet, the people behind the DTM pretend that everything's fine and dandy, which it's not!
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17 Jan 2014, 20:23 (Ref:3355350) | #93 | ||
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Problems of DTM - drivers are fast, but have no personality - on track compeition is very complicated to follow, but not dramatic - a lot of nonsense (DRS, Pit Stops etc.) around, but no real duels - only one race a weekend (better two, or 3 like BTCC) - no independent teams, that are keen on racing against the top teams - marketing is pointed towards the team "its fast and loud - wow" Maybe it is a problem, that i know the DTM, when it was famous (1988-1992 - best years), so i compare it against it. Even with different car concepts they made better racing than now...even if the manufacturers are complaining all the time). Even Super Touring made a better competition on track (maybe less power and aerodynamics are the solution). I know, that a lot of the spectators like to see fast and loud cars with big wings - but i want to see a close race between the cars and the drivers. They should drive like hell to get an advantage over the others - not waiting for pit stops or blue flags! Or waiting for the soft tyre.... Drivers personalities: it should be a good mixture from stars and young talents. Maybe we need drivers, that are able to have their own opinion, and do their point. I remember guys like Johnny Cecotto or Steve Soper, who are not everybodies darling, maybe driving sometimes too hard or being angry against others. Racing is also life, not only a directed hollywood movie!!!! I am very unhappy, about the opininons of the directors from Mercedes, Audi, BMW and ITR! They think, that they have good product (its a race series, not a bubble gum!), and don't feel to change something. Such a bad attitude, to not change the bad points really. I am sorry, that i may not have found the right words for my complaining. I hope, you understand my points nevertheless. |
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17 Jan 2014, 20:24 (Ref:3355352) | #94 | ||
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Rockenfeller just won the DTM title. Lotterer was FIA WEC vice-champion. Buhk, Schneider and Götz won the Blancpain. What else do German fans need?
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17 Jan 2014, 20:28 (Ref:3355360) | #95 | |||
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Still, there's VLN and ADAC GT Masters for that kind of racing. |
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Nitropteron - Fly fast or get crushed! by NaBUrean Prodooktionz naburu38.itch.io |
17 Jan 2014, 20:38 (Ref:3355368) | #96 | ||
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17 Jan 2014, 20:40 (Ref:3355371) | #97 | |
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We don't need champions - we need racers! Drivers, that are loved or hated...
Like Schumacher, Alsono, Raikönnen! I just remember Hans-Joachim Stuck, who came with a tyrolian hat on the podium...its just a small thing, but it makes a driver loveable or sometimes hateable... |
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17 Jan 2014, 20:44 (Ref:3355374) | #98 | ||
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@NaBUru38: For once, guys like Lotterer, Buhk and Götz should race in DTM. I'm a patriotic German and just like the Bundesliga sees some of Germany's best footballers competing against each other, I want to see some of Germany's best race drivers competing against each other in DTM. But at the moment, I doubt that the current German line-up is the best Germany has to offer.
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17 Jan 2014, 20:45 (Ref:3355376) | #99 | ||
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Thats very sad. I remember to be a big fan of the MM Diebels Team...they raced a BMW M3 in 1990 with Frank Schmickler. The car was so beautiful and they did a good job, so Schmickler could get his hands on good results...1991 they got a BMW works driver (Christian Danner) and some support. Unfortunately they got problems in this season, so they could not do better. But it was a nice story... Even Phoenix (Audi works squad) was a former independent team in german Super Touring. Did a good job and got a works offer from Audi. Now they are DTM champions Even the Ruch brothers from Berlin were very famous with their spectacular Ford Mustang. It was not successful, but the fans loved them... |
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18 Jan 2014, 13:27 (Ref:3355593) | #100 | ||||
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