USCC (leave your axe outside)

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Chiana

You need to start somewhere don't you.

Like I've said previously, rearranging the chairs on the deck of the Titanic, to hire buddies, isn't really change. This is just another Kansas City Shuffle.

If you want to start somewhere, try looking top down.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Like I've said previously, rearranging the chairs on the deck of the Titanic, to hire buddies, isn't really change. This is just another Kansas City Shuffle.

If you want to start somewhere, try looking top down.

Don't get me wrong if I was charge I would've sunken the whole ship before it ever left Southampton and told them to build a new one with better materials and more lifeboats, but for the current situation and keeping in mind that it's unrealistic to expect the higher positions of the Galactic Empire to change any time soon, it's a start...

[Maelochs]

My hope is, that the Rolex contingent is more willing to let the ALMS folks have more control.

Not to say ALMS was the ne-plus-ultra, but their problems weren't the racing it was the finance and promo---something I hoped from the start NASCAR could handle.

We can hope the series finds a whole new top management team, but I really don;'t see the people who are drawing paychecks right now, to voluntarily fire themselves. Promoting themselves out of the way works about the same.

Wouldn't ALMS racing circa 2008 with NASCAR's promo budget and program be about a good mix?

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Wouldn't ALMS racing circa 2008 with NASCAR's promo budget and program be about a good mix?

The thing is the entry list basically deteriorated from the inception of the ALMS, until where we are now. Yes, there was that blip for a couple of years with the participation of Acura and Porsche, but that is more attributed to the incompetence of the ACO than anything the ALMS management did. Their major piece of great work was the concept, which was brilliant... from there, not so much. The IMSA side of things were always great of course, the technical people... the ALMS, not the equal.

[Rcz]

Those P2 cars made by Porsche and Acura are the P2 cars to me.

The P2s that we have now are just a support class. And yes I know that P2s were alway supposed to be support cars but still.

We need a leading Proto class that that just as fast as a factory P1-H but somehow more cheaper.

I mean, should TUSC just be another support series like the ELMS?

Or should be like IMSA GT and the ALMS of old, where these series were just as important as there International counterparts.

[Gulf]

Its funny how this thread sounds so much like what people were saying about DMG run AMA. Heres an interesting article, is this the #future?

http://www.revzilla.com/common-tread...cing-has-ended

THE DISASTER OF HAVING NASCAR GUYS RUN U.S. MOTORCYCLE ROADRACING HAS MERCIFULLY ENDED.

The long and disastrous experiment with having stock car guys run the United States' premier motorcycle roadracing series has finally come to an end. Since the news broke yesterday that the series will be managed next year by a group led by former World Champion Wayne Rainey, among others (read the AMA news release here), I have seen many comments on social media and other web sites, and not one person said he was going to miss the Daytona Motorsports Group.

What's to miss? In six years of running the series, DMG ran it into the ground, then shrugged and left it there. This year, when DMG unveiled a race schedule of just five rounds (later upped to six), you could slather that pig with all the lipstick Estee Lauder ever produced and it wouldn't be enough to cover up the failure. Even the AMA leadership that hand-picked the DMG NASCAR guys to run AMA Superbike back in 2008 had to recognize the facts, especially under pressure from the FIM and Dorna, the MotoGP rights holder, to do something about the fiasco.

It's useful to remember how different things seemed back then. When AMA President Rob Dingman announced the transfer of the AMA Superbike series to DMG, with Roger Edmondson running the show, expectations were high that France family money from the NASCAR empire would flow in. NASCAR influence would get the series even greater television exposure. The sport would blossom.
Instead, in 2014 we have an abbreviated series with no television package at all, fewer fans at the tracks, and fewer sponsors willing to pay to put their logos on racebikes that hardly anyone sees.

It all started going horribly wrong that first year, when Edmondson, who had formerly been embroiled in a long lawsuit with the AMA, swaggered back in to take charge and, over the course of a year, alienated just about everyone. There was an idea that AMA Superbike could be more like NASCAR. Ford and Chevy are just nameplates on the front of otherwise identical cars in NASCAR. Independent teams are the main players. In motorcycle roadracing, factory teams backed by the likes of Honda and Suzuki dominated. Edmondson and DMG chased off the manufacturers, but then had no way to replace the manufacturers' dollars.

This is basically what we are living through right now. The Motorcycle people know how bad Daytona is, they were not praying and hoping nascar would change. Nascar won't change they are doing the same things to sports car racing.

[chernaudi]

Audi and Porsche didn't like having their sponsorship of the ALMS and their entries subsidizing the series, so they cut back severely at the end of '08.

One could say that as far as the Audi Sport, Porsche Motorsport and ultimately TMG LMP1 programs went, the damage was done though that and the formation of the WEC.

However, with the way that TUSCC ultimately has gone, that pretty much closed the door for the foreseeable future for any of those guys being willing to come back, and the entries that the ALMS and Grand Am had in one form or another threatened to leave the series, and some have.

I think that the management shake ups are IMSA/NASCAR/ISC's mea culpa admitting that they screwed up big time with anything not stock-car related, as well as DMG/ISC selling off the AMA.

The NASCAR stock car formula isn't a universal key to success in every field, just as the ACO/FIA formula probably wouldn't work for stock car racing. There are times where business and marketing strategies in all sports find a successful niche, and probably should just stay there where they are successful.

However, in the current state of TUSCC, one thing that I would find interesting is to denote the all-pro/pro-am classes, or maybe even prototype and GT classes not just with the leader lights system, but different colored highlight lights on the bodywork. Similar to what Audi have done with the R18 family for the past 3 or so years by running back-lit DRL strips in their headlights, though that's usually used to denote which car is on pit road at a given time.

But I think that the colored accent lighting would work well with the current leader lights system. Maybe also introduce two new colors to denote Prototype, LMPC GTLM/GTE and GTD instead of just the red for professional, and blue for pro-am.

[Gulf]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Audi and Porsche didn't like having their sponsorship of the ALMS and their entries subsidizing the series, so they cut back severely at the end of '08.

One could say that as far as the Audi Sport, Porsche Motorsport and ultimately TMG LMP1 programs went, the damage was done though that and the formation of the WEC.

However, with the way that TUSCC ultimately has gone, that pretty much closed the door for the foreseeable future for any of those guys being willing to come back, and the entries that the ALMS and Grand Am had in one form or another threatened to leave the series, and some have.

I think that the management shake ups are IMSA/NASCAR/ISC's mea culpa admitting that they screwed up big time with anything not stock-car related, as well as DMG/ISC selling off the AMA.

The NASCAR stock car formula isn't a universal key to success in every field, just as the ACO/FIA formula probably wouldn't work for stock car racing. There are times where business and marketing strategies in all sports find a successful niche, and probably should just stay there where they are successful.

However, in the current state of TUSCC, one thing that I would find interesting is to denote the all-pro/pro-am classes, or maybe even prototype and GT classes not just with the leader lights system, but different colored highlight lights on the bodywork. Similar to what Audi have done with the R18 family for the past 3 or so years by running back-lit DRL strips in their headlights, though that's usually used to denote which car is on pit road at a given time.

But I think that the colored accent lighting would work well with the current leader lights system. Maybe also introduce two new colors to denote Prototype, LMPC GTLM/GTE and GTD instead of just the red for professional, and blue for pro-am.

They think they can force the nascar formula on everyone. Some how they realized 6 years of running bikes failed but haven't realized 10+ years of grand am/tuscar has failed.

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Originally Posted by Gulf

Its funny how this thread sounds so much like what people were saying about DMG run AMA. Heres an interesting article, is this the #future?

http://www.revzilla.com/common-tread...cing-has-ended




This is basically what we are living through right now. The Motorcycle people know how bad Daytona is, they were not praying and hoping nascar would change. Nascar won't change they are doing the same things to sports car racing.

Dear god it's almost identical to what's currently happening with tusc....



Well here's to 2020

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by Gulf

They think they can force the nascar formula on everyone. Some how they realized 6 years of running bikes failed but haven't realized 10+ years of grand am/tuscar has failed.

IMSA/ALMS did not take over a failing GARRA, so to look at this a being caused by the France family, for whom I have zero admiration, is the pot calling the kettle black.

One series with crappy rules died, a second series with crappy rules changed it name and took over the failed series.
Their only point of being the same is crappy rules.

Maybe, only maybe, if by the end of 2016 road racing is in even worse shape, the France family might realize that power is fleeting and let some who care take charge.
Of course when the France boy reads a Bible, he probably thinks I could have done that better.

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Maybe, only maybe, if by the end of 2016 road racing is in even worse shape, the France family might realize that power is fleeting and let some who care take charge.

Yes, but those hopes would be dashed away when their premier stock car series is in a downward spiral.

If the France family are incompetent at handling TUSC, who will? I'm hoping that the guys at PWC will take care of it, but they're busy managing their own GT series.

[Danathar]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

My hope is, that the Rolex contingent is more willing to let the ALMS folks have more control.

Not to say ALMS was the ne-plus-ultra, but their problems weren't the racing it was the finance and promo---something I hoped from the start NASCAR could handle.

We can hope the series finds a whole new top management team, but I really don;'t see the people who are drawing paychecks right now, to voluntarily fire themselves. Promoting themselves out of the way works about the same.

Wouldn't ALMS racing circa 2008 with NASCAR's promo budget and program be about a good mix?

That and the fact that the WEC sucked the air right out of the series in regards to P1.

[Danathar]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Audi and Porsche didn't like having their sponsorship of the ALMS and their entries subsidizing the series, so they cut back severely at the end of '08.

One could say that as far as the Audi Sport, Porsche Motorsport and ultimately TMG LMP1 programs went, the damage was done though that and the formation of the WEC.

However, with the way that TUSCC ultimately has gone, that pretty much closed the door for the foreseeable future for any of those guys being willing to come back, and the entries that the ALMS and Grand Am had in one form or another threatened to leave the series, and some have.

I think that the management shake ups are IMSA/NASCAR/ISC's mea culpa admitting that they screwed up big time with anything not stock-car related, as well as DMG/ISC selling off the AMA.

The NASCAR stock car formula isn't a universal key to success in every field, just as the ACO/FIA formula probably wouldn't work for stock car racing. There are times where business and marketing strategies in all sports find a successful niche, and probably should just stay there where they are successful.

However, in the current state of TUSCC, one thing that I would find interesting is to denote the all-pro/pro-am classes, or maybe even prototype and GT classes not just with the leader lights system, but different colored highlight lights on the bodywork. Similar to what Audi have done with the R18 family for the past 3 or so years by running back-lit DRL strips in their headlights, though that's usually used to denote which car is on pit road at a given time.

But I think that the colored accent lighting would work well with the current leader lights system. Maybe also introduce two new colors to denote Prototype, LMPC GTLM/GTE and GTD instead of just the red for professional, and blue for pro-am.

Given that everybody knew the bridge years were going to be strange and difficult I'd like to revisit a full evaluation at the end of 2018. By that time we should be back to a series with full ACO spec cars.

LMP1 will probably never come back unless the WEC folds. The only real reason we had them before is because there wasn't really a world endurance championship that the big P1 teams could concentrate on. With the U.S. being the biggest market P1 made sense as the biggest stage for those cars before the WEC and ILMC.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Danathar

Given that everybody knew the bridge years were going to be strange and difficult I'd like to revisit a full evaluation at the end of 2018. By that time we should be back to a series with full ACO spec cars.

The current version of LMP2 is not a saleable concept.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

The current version of LMP2 is not a saleable concept.

Hence IMSA's push for bodykits?

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by joeb

Hence IMSA's push for bodykits?

I get that, but really that is more of an archaic NASCAR philosophy, and I doubt any "traditional" sportscar fan is buying "bodykits" as a real brand.

The only way the LMP2 format works, is if actual manufacturers build the full car, even if it is just privateers running them.

[Maelochs]

I 'd like to hope the series has more fans than this website has posters come 208.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

I get that, but really that is more of an archaic NASCAR philosophy, and I doubt any "traditional" sportscar fan is buying "bodykits" as a real brand.

The only way the LMP2 format works, is if actual manufacturers build the full car, even if it is just privateers running them.

Isn't that P1?

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Isn't that P1?

Mazda has a P2.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Mazda has a P2.

They have (ACO illegal) P2 engine. I fail to see correlation here.

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

The only way the LMP2 format works, is if actual manufacturers build the full car, even if it is just privateers running them.

[joeb]

They support a P2 program, that is the correlation.

[joeb]

IMSA.com has had a few pr pieces posted in the past week, and one is about Action Express/Coyote getting a new race shop:

http://www.imsa.com/articles/action-...-moving-future

There is also another about the points chase in the prototype category and if we can believe the quotes, look for the Taylor car to take a knock at the Action Express car in Austin:

Jordan Taylor said. “We can take as much risk as we want.”

[Lagunaseca_4life]

With this new points scoring system the championships will now be so close that Imsa will have no choice but to create a chase for the tudor cup.only question left to ask is what nation are you in!

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Originally Posted by joeb

There is also another about the points chase in the prototype category and if we can believe the quotes, look for the Taylor car to take a knock at the Action Express car in Austin:

Jeezus......

[Deleted]

Boogity boogity let's go racing boys!

Well at the very least, DPs crashing into each other might give P2 a chance for win, though I suspect since ACO is also present at the circuit watching and judging it's in IMSA's interest to have LMP2 winning anyway.