USCC (leave your axe outside)

[Deleted]

How soon can we except Mike Shanks to come and scream why he had to invest so much money for his DP upgrades - and that he wants his hard earned bucks back - when there are no P2 to compete against anyway?

[blankfile]

esm making true on their threats. IMSA really needs to get their head out of the sand for the series not to die next year

[Christian Mogami]

ESM is going to WEC China over TUSCC PLM!

[carbon_titanium]

surely ESM will run in WEC next year, reallisticly I can see OAK coming back to TUSC only to promote the ligier, but this is unlikely too

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Chiana

On the 365 article it's said they have no plans for 15 other than LM and whatever they do in WEC/Europe, however in DSC article



Not that it really matters, NASCAR and IMSA have screwed it up. Which is no new news

You might have missed this part of the S365 article:

“By all means, we’re going to be racing in the United States next year, but we felt that this was important to set us up for the goals that we’ve set.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by joeb

You might have missed this part of the S365 article:

That doesn't necessarily mean anything as WEC goes there as well

[broadrun96]

They pull out of Petit and then expect they won't be handed bricks to carry around? And what could they expect to learn with different tires and whatever adjustments have to be made?

I'm confused by Ed's logic:

“We’re committed to going to the 24 Hours of Le Mans next year. I feel it is important for us to pick the absolute hardest race that the team could do, and that means racing in China; there’s language, food and logistics issues, among other challenges.

“If we truly want to be competitive at Le Mans or any other WEC race, we need to get our hands around the series and regulations at one of the demanding location.

“The best thing we can do is throw a challenge at the team. We’re going to learn so much in the week in China; it will pay huge dividends.”

But then let's rip the WEC settings back off the car to run at Daytona and Sebring with different tires and rules?? I'm thinking little chance there's a real effort at either next spring without a straight WEC spec car in the event.

[Christian Mogami]

ESM will most likely ONLY will do Daytona and Sebring in TUSCC ONLY because they are great endurance test for LM.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

They pull out of Petit and then expect they won't be handed bricks to carry around? And what could they expect to learn with different tires and whatever adjustments have to be made?

They already had crap BoP in the first place so what do they have to loose...

And what to expect? Reliability/shakedown for a brand new car in order to get it running properly in ACO environment

[Gulf]

Originally Posted by joeb

You might have missed this part of the S365 article:

The WEC races in America.

Originally Posted by broadrun96

They pull out of Petit and then expect they won't be handed bricks to carry around? And what could they expect to learn with different tires and whatever adjustments have to be made?

They should just not race in any tuscar race nascar is known to be very vindictive towards teams.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Chiana

They already had crap BoP in the first place so what do they have to loose...

And what to expect? Reliability/shakedown for a brand new car in order to get it running properly in ACO environment

So different BOP, tires, rules means a worthwhile test?? Joining Audi, Porsche or whoever else rents Sebring in the spring would be a better investment and that doesn't seem to have hurt them not racing. It's all marketing speak, there's no TUSC racing for them left since he specifically states racing the US next year not which series. With them in the WEC race in China, LM entry targeted for 2015 and the Lonestar on a one year contract they (Patron) are looking like the piece to bring WEC back to COTA for 2015 as the LoneStar LM presented by Patron.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

So different BOP, tires, rules means a worthwhile test?? Joining Audi, Porsche or whoever else rents Sebring in the spring would be a better investment and that doesn't seem to have hurt them not racing. It's all marketing speak, there's no TUSC racing for them left since he specifically states racing the US next year not which series. With them in the WEC race in China, LM entry targeted for 2015 and the Lonestar on a one year contract they (Patron) are looking like the piece to bring WEC back to COTA for 2015 as the LoneStar LM presented by Patron.

Running in racing conditions, even if it's just for preparation purposes, is more valueble than straightout testing. Which they can do in addition anyway, so it's not like they are losing anything. They can do those Sebring tests or whatever as well.

Also, again

->

Originally Posted by Dailysportscar

Ed Brown meanwhile confirmed that ESM do plan to contest the 2015 NAEC: “Daytona and Sebring in particular will be very important for the team to learn all we can about our new cars (the new for 2015 HPD Coupe).

Though as others said they will likely bail out after Sebring, no need to stick with the bop crap in-season

[Gulf]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Running in racing conditions, even if it's just for preparation purposes, is more valueble than straightout testing. Which they can do in addition anyway, so it's not like they are losing anything. They can do those Sebring tests or whatever as well.

Also, again

->



Though as others said they will likely bail out after Sebring, no need to stick with the bop crap in-season

Maybe ESM can join in on the Audi 12 hour test of Sebring presented by Porsche powered by Nissan the other thread was joking about lmao.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Gulf

Maybe ESM can join in on the Audi 12 hour test of Sebring presented by Porsche powered by Nissan the other thread was joking about lmao.

Yes the Audi Vorsprung durch Technik 12 Hours of Open Winter Testing at Sebring presented by Porsche and powered by Nissan and fueled by Tequila Patron

Lots of options

[Gulf]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Yes the Audi Vorsprung durch Technik 12 Hours of Open Winter Testing at Sebring presented by Porsche and powered by Nissan and fueled by Tequila Patron

Lots of options

Perfect!

[David Land]

Originally Posted by Gulf

Perfect!

*Simply Perfect.

[FstrthnU]

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2014/0...from-2015.html
So, best Pro-Am entries in P and GTLM in 2015 get auto-invites to 2016 24H of Le Mans (in LMP2 and GTE-Am). But the entry has to at least do the NAEC. Trying to attract more entrants?

[BullMan]

Originally Posted by FstrthnU

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2014/0...from-2015.html
So, best Pro-Am entries in P and GTLM in 2015 get auto-invites to 2016 24H of Le Mans (in LMP2 and GTE-Am). But the entry has to at least do the NAEC. Trying to attract more entrants?

Sounds like a good idea. I think they're trying to get auto invites for that series sorted out. It's just a random pick right now isn't it?

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by BullMan

Sounds like a good idea. I think they're trying to get auto invites for that series sorted out. It's just a random pick right now isn't it?

And I think it's also an effort at getting a few P2s sold to guys wanting to run into the future. Or a certain lime green new P2 car for 2015 going to LM?? Big question will be if anything can carry over to LM for 2017 P2 regs.

[TheMightyM]

Originally Posted by FstrthnU

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2014/0...from-2015.html
So, best Pro-Am entries in P and GTLM in 2015 get auto-invites to 2016 24H of Le Mans (in LMP2 and GTE-Am). But the entry has to at least do the NAEC. Trying to attract more entrants?

Yes, kind of, put only in part. TUSC certainly isn’t hurting for Daytona and Sebring entries but Watkins Glen only saw a three car NAEC bump this year. So it's more about inspiring participation beyond the 36 Hours of Florida and participation in certain classes.

As with all Le Mans auto-invites it may not matter — whoever gets the auto-invite may or may not opt to use it. I think the idea is to get some TUSC gentlemen drivers to move up a weight-class to P or GTLM. It may also serve to attract some ELMS drivers/teams to come over. To do that, it would help it the ELMS season ended before Petit (which isn't the case this year).

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Yes, I know about the Camaro and the fast Cadillac, and the Mustangs and Cobra-fied Mustangs, and the hot hatches, and all that. Thing is, none of those are really mass-marketed as sports cars. The Pony-Car/Muscle-car age is over, and "performance" is more aimed at mpg than mph—in the minds of most consumers as well as the factories.

The manufacturers know that the people buying new cars generally need to strap in a baby seat and load up with groceries or the kids' sports gear—or they are buying pick-ups. Too many young people see cars as utilities with comfort features, and driving is more a chore and a hassle—a necessary evil—than a source of excitement.

So that is the reason that Chevrolet, Dodge and Ford all produce and sell from the factory, Camaros, Challengers and Mustangs that cannot be licensed for the street as they are built for racing only without a VIN.

So same U.S. population that hates these cars goes to drag races in numbers large enough that the Big Three will deliberately produce cars, on the production line, that will make said same population hate them, while also keeping multiple drag racing sanctions profitable.

Me thinks your rhetoric has a flaw.

[tjh8402]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

[COLOR=Navy]

The manufacturers know that the people buying new cars generally need to strap in a baby seat and load up with groceries or the kids' sports gear—or they are buying pick-ups. Too many young people see cars as utilities with comfort features, and driving is more a chore and a hassle—a necessary evil—than a source of excitement.

.

Not to sidetrack this discussion too much, but I will say that while this is true, the cost of living and economy isn't helping. I'm 30 and currently drive an enthusiast car, a 2004 BMW 330i. That will not last much longer. I'm hoping to soon buy my first house, and once those expenses start rolling in (I currently live with family), the BMW is going to turn into a weekend toy. I can't afford a mortgage and continuing to spend $60 to fill the gas tank (not to mention repair costs). I'm lucky too. I have no debt at at all (the car was bought cash), and a reasonable well paying job for a single guy. Once I close on this house, I'm gonna have to find something more affordable to drive, and likely more boring (as much as I love the Fiesta ST, spending $20k on a new car that doesn't get 100 mpg isn't likely to help the budget).

Forget our love affair with smart phones - look at the cost of housing, gas, food, etc. It all pinches the budget. Never mind that the traffic here in Orlando (and many urban suburban areas) generally isn't conducive to driving fun cars. Sitting in stop n go never driving faster than 40 mph traffic is no better in a BMW or Mustang than it is in a Prius. Combine all this with the fact that most cars today are not particularly fun (even many formerly enthusiast oriented brands like my beloved BMW have gone lost in the wilderness and no longer make truly fun to drive machines), and the most challenging "relevance" of racing may be taking the love of cars and driving from racecars and finding streetcars to be passionate about.

[Maelochs]

Mr. Reibe;

My rhetoric is adequate ... as is the logic behind it.

Try to read carefully and maybe notice the word "generally." it's right there in the first sentence of the second paragraph.

You also could have read the part where I said "Yes, I know about the Camaro and the fast Cadillac, and the Mustangs and Cobra-fied Mustangs, and the hot hatches, and all that. Thing is, none of those are really mass-marketed as sports cars. The Pony-Car/Muscle-car age is over, and "performance" is more aimed at mpg than mph—in the minds of most consumers as well as the factories."

Seer how that directly refutes your complaint before you even made it? Not a smooth move on your part.

These are the sort of omissions people make when they really have no valid basis to attack but want to attack anyway--deliberately mis-state or ignore part of the argument and then attack the argument that they have changed, because the original offers no easy targets.

Your critique technique is somewhat lacking.

[Christian Mogami]

ESM 2015 plans at the moment.

Will only do the 4 Patron sponsored TUSCC races.

2015 24hrs of Le Mans.

Will do a WEC race before Le Mans.

Full WEC in the cards but can't give a answer at the moment because there is no 2015 WEC schedule.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Christian Mogami

ESM 2015 plans at the moment.

Will only do the 4 Patron sponsored TUSCC races.

2015 24hrs of Le Mans.

Will do a WEC race before Le Mans.

Full WEC in the cards but can't give a answer at the moment because there is no 2015 WEC schedule.

I'll believe that when "my sh_t turns purple and smells like rainbow sherbet." They decide PLM isn't worth the time for even one car but rather run in China for 'logistics' and planning reasons and then expect us to believe they will be back for the NAEC with a complete change to the car??

And this comes from a guy that supported them and wore his ESM gear off the track too. At this point I'd rather they stayed gone and found a way to test their new chassis that didn't use they series they couldn't be bothered to race in except when it suited them. But I thought the same thing about all one-off cars in any series.